Time needed for specific works

LeffeBrune · Post by **LeffeBrune** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:50 pm

Hi,

I would be very grateful for a very rough estimate how many man hours (by professional mechanics / workers who are very experienced with restoring/servicing E-Types) are needed for the following works on an S1 OTS:

- removing the engine, original gearbox, and propshaft, putting in a new gearbox and propshaft, and installing the original engine.

- removing the old interior trim (which was in decent condition) and putting in a new Aldrige interior trim with no work done on the seats.

As I said, I only need a ballpark figure to check whether the hours given by my dealer (not based in the UK and not active on this forum) make sense.

Thanks so much.

Georg

cactusman · Post by **cactusman** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:43 pm

Firstly always assume it will take longer than expected!!! I am not an expert....others will have better ideas but I would guesstimate based on removing other car engines..

Engine etc...depends if they drop out below and avoid the need to remove the bonnet. Assuming they know what they are doing I would say engine/transmission out...one day.

Fit new gear box to engine...half a day max.

Refit engine/gear box...another day.

If they need to remove the bonnet it may add an extra half day. I would also allow an extra half day for unforeseen issues

Total 2.5 min or three if the bonnet comes off.

Trim...no idea. If the old trim is to be preserved probably a day to remove.

New trim...I would allow at least two days....

Post by **mgcjag** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:05 pm

Hi George......why not give us the details of the hours they have quoted......for the trim if your having new carpets,sound proofing etc then everything has to come out of the car,...are they going to remove all the old adhesive etc....are you having new door cards and cappings or your ones re trimmed....quite a lot of work involved just in the center console

LeffeBrune · Post by **LeffeBrune** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:23 pm

The total is 166 hours. i.e, the equivalent to 4 man weeks. It includes a few other minor works of no more than 10 hours. For reasons too difficult to explain, it is not broken down between the engine/gearbox work and the interior work.

I had a earlier quote which was about 2-3 days from the engine gearbox and 5 days for the interior. Thus a total of may be 60-70 hours. Unfortunately, I got that over the phone and don't have it confirmed in writing.

So I want to get back to them but first want to be sure that, unless there was something unforeseen, 166 hours is really way off the mark.

Thanks.

Georg

Post by **mgcjag** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:42 pm

Hi Georg....you obviously think this is too much.......you need to get other quotes seperating the trimming from the engine wotk.....why not have the engine done....... then remove as much of the trim yourself and then have a trimmer re do the interior.....having everything done at one restorer will always cost more

LeffeBrune · Post by **LeffeBrune** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:06 pm

Steve--The problem is that I had the work already done and he says these hours we used. And I made the mistake of not having the original quote confirmed.

Post by **mgcjag** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:34 pm

Hi George......Ok now we understand.....you need to know if you are being charged too much........how pleased are you with the quality of the work done.......how does the cost compare with what you were expecting......you need to ask for a complete breakdown of the hours so that you know how much time was spent on the trimming........have they released the car to you and have you agreed that the work is to your satisfaction........I am very sorry that you are now in an awkward situation that will take some negotiation..what out come do you want.....I dont think that we can say theyhave taken too many hours becaus we dont know the quality of workmanship, and the full details of what was done...

LeffeBrune · Post by **LeffeBrune** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:25 pm

Steve--fair enough. I don't have the car back. I know that the garage does good work and so I assume the work is to my liking. I also know that time spent can depend on several things. That's why I was asking for a ballpark figure or range.

Georg

nefematic · Post by **nefematic** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:40 pm

George,

sorry for your situation. I guess now is too late to change things, but without clear defintion of work to be done at which cost, both parties should have had or have demanded in between status agreements. Imo since obviously no written contract exists the shop is to have detailed lists of work done, when, and with the price per cost unit (in your case hours). They should not be able to overcharge what a fair market cost would have been. You will need (at your cost) an appraisal for work done, and what (only the necessary) cost would be fair market value. Should the shop demand "more work done" than intially agreed, they would have needed your approval up front in order to press that. If the appraiser puts the work at lower necessary hours, the shop worked too slow and should not be able to charge that slowness to the customer. So, as long as you haven't agreed them to "do it all" at a such and such hourly rate, you should be able to negotiate. If you are unsatisfied with the work done things can get messy. I hope work done is agreable and it's only an issue of money. My 2 cents.
Martin

abowie · Post by **abowie** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:25 pm

2 days (16 hours) maximum to remove and replace the engine and gearbox.

2 weeks maximum (80 hours) for a competent trimmer to remove and replace the trim.

christopher storey · Post by **christopher storey** » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:33 am

I think Andrew's estimate for the engine is low. For safety reasons, I doubt that any professional would allow one man to work on his own, at least for the parts of the job where things can fly apart or fall . Thus I think that perhaps 24 hours would be more realistic for removal/replacement alone. 1 hour for propshaft , 3 hours for clutch and gearbox change( assuming it is a standard box going back in - if it is a 5 speed then you can add to that considerably to cater for contingencies ) , add another 2 hours for cleaning etc, and we have 30 hours . As far as trimming is concerned , when I had mine done , just to put all new trim on a bare shell took something in the region of 3 weeks for one man full time and an assistant part time i.e. about 120 hours in all. The time consuming bits on trim are that much of the glass has to be removed and put back to do the job properly . Thus taken as a whole, the time taken does not sound to me to be so excessive as to be unbelievable . I think what has probably happened is that they underestimated when asked to give a figure on the phone

LeffeBrune · Post by **LeffeBrune** » Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:10 am

Christopher and Andrew: Thanks.

Christopher: What do you mean by taking the glass out for the trim? I should have mentioned that they did not re-trimm the dashboard.

abowie · Post by **abowie** » Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:32 am

Christoper is right. I checked with my "boss". They charge 20 hours for removal and replacement. We usually have 2 guys for the heavy stuff, and one of us does the ancillaries.

Mark Gordon · Post by **Mark Gordon** » Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:27 pm

"If they need to remove the bonnet it may add an extra half day."

One minor point of disagreement, Julian. Removing the bonnet, particularly in a well-equiped auto shop, is a 15 minute job for one man. You just unplug the wiring harness, raise the front end about 6", undo the hinge at the frame, open the bonnet to 90 deg. and remove the pivot bolts, lowering the bonnet down onto padding to protect the overriders. The first time that you do it, it will take a little longer (the first time for everything except sex always does), but my son and I can get mine off in about ten minutes. It's so easy and quick to do that I remove it for most jobs that require access to the front of the engine. The extra 10-15 minutes to remove the bonnet is more than made up in time saved due to better access, not to mention the strain saved on this old back!

LeffeBrune · Post by **LeffeBrune** » Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:44 pm

I now have the break-down:

Removing, engine, transmission, clutch and propshaft: 3 man x 12 h = 36 h This includes: remove hood; remove interior trim around tunnel cover; remove seats; drain hydraulic tubes clutch; remove tunnel cover; remove prop shaft; disconnect electric cables and tubes from engine/transmission; disconnect/remove exhaust pipes; take out motor and transmission; separate motor, transmission, and clutch:

Placing clutch, new transmission, and motor: 3 man x 18 hours = 54 Std This includes: change and center clutch; connect clutch, transmission, and motor; install unit clutch/transmission/motor; connect unit to cables and tubes; welding and cutting on fixture of gearbox (it was a 5 speed that was installed); measure propshaft and order new propshaft; intall exhaust pipes; connect instruments

Placing hood: 2 man x 2 hours = 4 h

Install interior trim 72 h.

I think the placing hood and installing interior trim are ok. The removing of engine/transmission and installing on the same seem to be on the high side. While for certain works 2 (or may be even three people are need/useful), I don?t think all three can have been performing work at the same time. I don't believe there an extraordinary amount of welding because this was not mentioned.

Am I missing something here?

Thanks.

tinworm · Post by **tinworm** » Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:58 pm

So thats 90 man hours to remove an E type engine and gearbox and refit - a job that one man could do fairly easily - that would take me about 19 hours if I stopped for copious Tea breaks.

regards Barrie

christopher storey · Post by **christopher storey** » Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:34 am

I have to say that I regard the use of 3 men on the engine removal/replacement as very odd. I suppose 3 pairs of hands might be useful for the actual lifting and positioning operation , but this is only a small part of the job, and could not possibly take more than about 1 hour for each operation i.e. 6 hours in all.( 1 to lift, 1 to guide, and 1 to watch clearances etc ) . The rest of the time a third man would merely get in the way of the other two . And even if there were 3 engaged, you would not expect all 3 to be charged at the same rate . I should ask to see the individual men's time sheets

PS - re the glass removal : this is needed sometimes for the replacement of the velvet in the glass channels , to replace some of the sealing rubbers on the rear quarter lights and the central pillar, and to replace the trim on the rear hatch. Also, to replace the sealing rubbers on the bulkhead area , it may be necessary to take the doors off in order to rivet the curved channels which hold the rubber.

cactusman · Post by **cactusman** » Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:54 pm

Hi Mark....yes....you can probably remove your bonnet in 15 mins

Remember though that a garage will be mindful of damage....damage that would be expensive to fix if they dropped it.

A single person cannot lift an E type bonnet and any competent garage would ensure at least two operatives were present. They would remove the pins and lift away and that realistically takes three people. Three lots of time equal a morning really.[/list]

christopher storey · Post by **christopher storey** » Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:28 pm

It takes, as has already been said , a matter of a few minutes to remove a bonnet . Perhaps 5 minutes for 1 man to remove the bolts, 5 minutes for 1 man to remove the top hat bushes, and then ( for 3 men as Julian has said ) 5 minutes to lift and store the bonnet . This is not, with all due respect, a morning . And the bonnets are not in fact all that heavy - 3 men can carry one with absolute ease

Post by **1954Etype** » Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:01 pm

Providing the top hats come out easily then yes, l agree.

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