5 speed gearbox

Post by **Heuer** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:56 am

1954Etype wrote: Yep, agreed except that I have cold feet now in the E Type. (Just can't keep some people happy)

Have you considered using the heater?

Post by **1954Etype** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:33 am

Heuer wrote:
1954Etype wrote: Yep, agreed except that I have cold feet now in the E Type. (Just can't keep some people happy)
Have you considered using the heater?

At the risk of hi jacking this thread, I bought a series 2 heater vent at Stoners which means I will be able to direct the air better. And yes, I do use the heater but mine is either at 1000 deg C or ambient.

JEP41 · Post by **JEP41** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:31 am

In reply to Paul,

I haven't thrown any roses at Glebe yet as I haven't had chance to try the boxes as I said time will tell. I researched which gearbox to go with and would have loved a box from Paul's company however budget restraints and location made it unfeasible.
With regards to the EJ box I have one sitting on my garage floor which I installed in my car when building for track use only using a 3.31 diff. Plans changed and the car is used for road and track so now a 5th gear is desirable just for the road use so out came the EJ and in went a Getrag, I have never needed the 5th gear when on a track day, the car still has the 3.31 diff which I find excellent on the track and road now I have a 5th gear. My mistake was going for a Getrag which will shortly be replaced by the T5

5speeds · Post by **5speeds** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:59 pm

JEP41 wrote: My mistake was going for a Getrag which will shortly be replaced by the T5

What I'd like to clear up when people discuss 5 speed conversions is what is stated in the above quote. None of the Jag 5 speed conversions are using stock T5 units. T5 is a registered trademark for the Tremec - Borg Warner T5 used in a multitude of makes and models. The truth is, the majority of conversions today are T5 based. Although I'm proud to have started the trend of making a unit fit an E-Type using T5 components ( back in 1994) it was never a T5 from any passenger car. None of the ones offered today are. Therefore you cannot judge performance and history based on stock T5 units. Some could be better and some could be and are really bad.

I am stating this because new comers to these threads would assume that the words "replaced by the T5" mean a stock T5 unit. The Derek Watson, Elite, Glebe, E-Type Fabs, Classic Jaguar, Driven Man, and JT5 are all based on using the T5 gears and platform as a base. Three of these companies use copies of JT5 rear extension castings, and all of them have copied the JT5 rear mounting locations, mount and plate designs.

Somehow people are no longer concerned about who builds transmissions. Most people are shopping based on price. Some marketing is to be the cheapest, some marketing is to add a lot of flash and charge more money to convince people they feel they are getting something superior. Oddly nobody seems to care about who actually does the assembly or design work.

One of the reasons I liked the Broadsport (made by R&D Transmissions) design was that at least it was a different approach and made much more sense to the UK market since the MT75 transmissions used as a base are plentiful.

JEP41 · Post by **JEP41** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:15 am

I have heard of one Broadspeed gearbox having failed that was installed in an E-Type after only a few months. What concerned me about this box was the MT75 was installed in various Ford products in the UK, but when Ford developed the Cosworth of which I owned two (best performance value for money ever) Ford opted for the T5 Why?

Reference to WatJag I have heard on these threads of David's problems and when at Guy Broards place recently, actually next door in a scrap yard picking up a tank engine sump, there was a WatJag sitting on the floor with a failed rear housing seal. Now I here of the leak on a JT5 on the Forum, so maybe my old noisy but reliable Getrag which is still installed may stay installed?

I did see the E-Type Fabs box at Stoneleigh and it looked like a work of art, however I would like some history after say 50,000 miles on the box

christopher storey · Post by **christopher storey** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:29 am

AFAIK, the MT75 has a much lower torque capacity than the T5 ( it has been used predominantly in Sierras) hence the choice of the T5

Post by **Heuer** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:30 am

On the subject of the ETF 5 speed I had a long talk with Uryk yesterday and he tells me production has settled down to 5 boxes a month and the backlog has been cleared. He has now further developed the box so that the original Jaguar prop shaft can be retained without modification. This reduces cost and simplifies installation. These new 'short tail' boxes will be shipping from January. There is a lot more going on at E-Type Fabs and I will cover that in a separate thread.

chuffer · Post by **chuffer** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 3:17 pm

Hi John (JEP41)

Could you check your spam filter as I sent you a couple of PMs earlier in the week and they're still in my outbox, so that tells me you haven't seen them.

Many thanks.

Sorry to everyone else, but Jobn hasn't given us the ability to email him so I can only contact him this way.

Ray

Post by **1954Etype** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 3:42 pm

Heuer wrote:On the subject of the ETF 5 speed I had a long talk with Uryk yesterday and he tells me production has settled down to 5 boxes a month and the backlog has been cleared. He has now further developed the box so that the original Jaguar prop shaft can be retained without modification. This reduces cost and simplifies installation. These new 'short tail' boxes will be shipping from January. There is a lot more going on at E-Type Fabs and I will cover that in a separate thread.

The money for my ETF Box went on a 4 post lift and a 2.88 diff. Couldn't put up with excuse after excuse and being let down time after time......

5speeds · Post by **5speeds** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:40 pm

The Sierra T5 is a world class Borg Warner T5 with a 2.95 ratio and .80 OD. The box had little failures except for 5th gear. The factory .80 OD gear teeth are quite small to get that desired ratio within that form factor. The spline and shift diameters are much smaller than a Mustang 2.95 Motorsport set. Which for the most part share the same part numbers for all the gears except, 5th set and the input shaft.

The JT5 boxes use a HD 5th .80 ( if ordered) designed by myself. I also just started selling a 23 spline version as a replacement for the weaker ones in Sierra boxes.

The JT5 uses an 1 1/16" by 10 spline input and a 28 spline output. I was never one for fixed flange shafts because they are much weaker than shafts that incorporate floating flanges.. Thus we supply a new driveshaft. I never understood why if one is going to the trouble off adding an updated transmission that is suppose to be stronger that that they then fit it with something that makes it weaker.

Fixed flange outputs are one of the reasons the new Camaro was halted in production due to transmission output shaft failures...

When people start making T5 based kits you have to be very careful as to what alloys you use. The exotic alloys actually used by the OEM are pretty good for reliability, wear, and strength. These are not easily duplicated by average gear manufacturers..

AussieEtype · Post by **AussieEtype** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:14 pm

I took out my auto and put in a Getrag 290 out of an Australian 5 litre V8 Holden Commodore. I believe the same box is in the manual Jaguar XJR.

Two main issues with this gearbox was the integral bellhousing and the lack of a speedo drive.

I had a 10mm steel adaptor plate made to join the gearbox to the engine and bought a VDO programmable speedo and inserted it into a e-type speedo housing and made up a dial similar to the original using photoshop.

I used a chev steel billet flywheel, the holden clutch and the original e-type auto ring gear bolted between the flywheel and crank.

The gear lever has been fabricated to fit where the e-type lever goes. I used the holden gearbox rear X member and only required two holes to be drilled in the floor for it to be bolted up. Clearance is a bit tight at the rear of the tunnel but slight reversable reshaping of one small section of the rear tunnel provided clearance. I modified an auto panel on the top of the tunnel to provide clearance on the top. There are no mods to the body that could not be reversed in half a days work.

The only other modification was to buy an old XJS drive shaft and modify one end to fit the gearbox.

I have not driven big miles on it but it seems to work well and I was able to do all the work myself with basic tools - just contracting out things like machining, and balancing the flywheel/clutch as one unit.

First gear is a little lower than the jag box so take-offs are a bit quicker but 2nd, 3rd and 4th are similar to the standard jag 4 speed box.

Garry

Dave K · Post by **Dave K** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:06 pm

[The money for my ETF Box went on a 4 post lift and a 2.88 diff. Couldn't put up with excuse after excuse and being let down time after time......[/quote]

Angus,

I know you are a bit pissed off with Uryk but I do believe he was doing his best to try and make everyone happy. Maybe he failed somewhat in doing that, engineers do not make the best salesmen.

He has a top class product that is not a run of the mill part it takes a lot of know how to get it to pre production never mind actually making one good enough to sell. One small set back can take weeks of sorting to get right.
I have driven a car with the box and can tell you or anyone else here it will be hard to better it - that doesn't come by chance.
Uryk also has a day job in making the best engine frames in the business and has 6 months worth of orders so to enable him to get the box working well he had sacrifice the core of the business. Would it have been better for him to let that part of the business die and concerntrate on the box? I don't think it would and almost every E-type owner would agree.

Something else to take into account.
Did you place a bonefide order and deposit with him? or was it just a friendly phone call saying when you get a box ready I'll have one off you?
All of the people he has supplied boxes to placed official orders.

I'll bet thinking back Uryk would be the first to admit that if this happened again he would do things differently like keeping his gob shut until it was actually ready to roll but we all make mistakes.

As you know I am making something for the roadster which I have been going at every night for the past 6 months and everytime I think I'm close I get another setback, this costs more time and more money so I sort of know how Uryk feels.
I could make my product now and stick it out there, works very well and I'm sure people would buy it but I just wouldn't be happy putting my name on it and to make things worse I wouldn't be happy with other people saying it was mine and then saying does a good job but the quality is very poor.

I know you feel let down by Uryk and he hates letting anyone down, to the both of us he is a bit more than just a supplier of parts he is more like a good friend. Personally I would bite the bullet, throw the 2.88 diff in the canal and go back to him for a definate date and buy a gearbox- you know you want one-go on :D
I'm having one I don't know when yet but I'm having one and you can't stand it now that my cars better than yours so with the ETF 5 speed you will be so gutted you'll sell yours and buy an MG :D :D

Dave

Post by **1954Etype** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:09 pm

Dave,

let me get a couple of things clear. Firstly, the quality of the ETF kit is not in question. I would have fitted an ETF box in a flash (and tried to) to my car. In fact, one of the reasons for selling my last car was to fit a 5 speeder as the long distance work was important.

I made phone call after phone call and even asked if I should sell my 4 speed box to which I was told yes. I did. Luckily it was to a mate who was kind enough to sell it back to me. So, am I a single voice in the wilderness (or maybe Uryk doesn't like me ;)). Whatever the reason, my experience left me feeling badly let down. Hopefully, other people won't/aren't going through what I did. And yes, I did place an official order (without placing a deposit - I would have done if asked).

chuffer · Post by **chuffer** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:47 pm

I've finally decided to take the plunge and replace my Getrag with a T5-based solution and would like to know if there's anyone on this list who has such a beast sourced from either Watjag, Elite of Glebe - excluding John, JEP41, with whom I am already in contact.

Ideally someone who is reasonably close to me in north Manchester so I can have a look at the solution and its fitment.

Many thanks
Ray

Post by **Heuer** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:05 pm

Ray

I have a Watjag T5 and have driven 15,000 miles with it. Mixed experiences so PM me off list for details. The T5 is a good product but you should look at the JT5, ETF 5 speed and the EType UK SE box. About the only one you can test drive is the latter (box Harry supplies) so give him a call and have a chat - excellent place to start! You can benchmark the rest against it.

Dave K · Post by **Dave K** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:41 pm

chuffer wrote:I've finally decided to take the plunge and replace my Getrag with a T5-based solution and would like to know if there's anyone on this list who has such a beast sourced from either Watjag, Elite of Glebe - excluding John, JEP41, with whom I am already in contact.

Ideally someone who is reasonably close to me in north Manchester so I can have a look at the solution and its fitment.

Many thanks
Ray

Chuffer,

What was the reason for choosing a T5 over any other gearbox?
The reason I have stayed away from buying a 5 speed box for so long is I wanted one specifically made for the E-Type and not something you need to fit adaptoers or cut part of the car away to get in.

Dave

chuffer · Post by **chuffer** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 1:30 pm

Hi Dave,

I note from your posting elsewhere that you have ordered a box from ETF. Having visited Uryk last month I too was impressed both by him and his box.

However, I think it's horses for courses and my criteria, skill set and budget mean that a T5 is best for me.

I prefer the feel of the shift of the T5 and its proven track record, not just in E Types, but in the USA it is widely used in many Fords, GM and AMC vehicles and over here in the Ford Sierra Cosworth and TVR cars. Spares are readily available off the shelf from many sources in the UK and there is a vast knowledge-base here too.

When you've looked after your own cars for nearly 45 years (largely through financial necessity), kept classic cars on the road single-handedly for 20 years and built a kit car, then the need for an adaptor, and possible reshaping of the tunnel is a non-issue.

I hope your ETF box will be a joy to behold and your appreciation of the overdrive 5th gear will put a big smile on your face - I'll be dissappointed if my T5 does not do the same for me.

cheers
Ray

5speeds · Post by **5speeds** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:02 pm

Trying to understand why people still just don't get the fact the the Etype Fabs box is T5 based with a billet case.....

I've said this many times... I think the concept is good, to make a case that fits the original Jag housing..... that's if you think the Jag Bell is made accurately,or if the wow factor of a billet case is paramount.

People need to look into replacement parts, people need to research how long companies have been specializing in a product they make. Regardless of what products you purchase for your Jaguar, I'm sure you don't want to be hearing that the product you purchased 2 weeks ago is now being made differently because of design issues, failures... etc.

chuffer · Post by **chuffer** » Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:23 pm

Following on from my contributions to this thread, allow me to bring you up to date; I have now purchased my T5 derivative and started a new thread in the Upgrade section.

In it, I hope to let you know how I get on with fitment and ultimately its use. I hope it helps others.

Unfortunately, before I fit it, there is just the small job of fitting a new side frame first.....
:?
cheers
Ray

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5 speed gearbox

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