Engine Rebuild advice please

[andrewh]

If I were to want an engine rebuild carried out on a 3.8, can any of you give me advice on who to go to and what sort of price it will cost me completed ready to fit back into the car? So a full rebuild with carbs overhauled and polished etc. Send me a pm if you have comments you dont want to air here about where not to go!

[1954Etype]

If I were to want an engine rebuild carried out on a 3.8, can any of you give me advice on who to go to and what sort of price it will cost me completed ready to fit back into the car? So a full rebuild with carbs overhauled and polished etc. Send me a pm if you have comments you dont want to air here about where not to go!

Andrew, I went to VSE for the rebuild of my S1 4.2. I have an engine that I am very happy with. Give them a ring with what you want to have done and they will give you a quote. You can even arrange to view their facility in Wales which is quite impressive.

[Heuer]

Agree with Angus. VSE have a very impressive, although very rural, production line facility. You can stay overnight in the local pub and make a couple of days out of the trip as it takes a while to get to them. They will ship your engine back on a pallet ready to fit. Both Angus and I have the VSE02 engine which is set up for 'fast road'. In my case 280bhp and 340lb/ft at the flywheel. Alternative is Rob Beere who does excellent work. Expect to pay about ?2,500 I guess.

[andrewh]

thanks guys. I had sort of alighted upon VSE before asking, but its interesting to here your views. By way of comparison, I have just had an Aston DB4GT engine rebuilt. Anyone care to have a stab at the cost, carried out by RS Williams. The engine is superb producing 330 bhp and 390 ft lbs of torque.

[MarkE]

The cost...about ?2k. The price ......from Williams? About ?15k But it depends on what they did with the head and carbs...it can go a lot higher!!

[1954Etype]

thanks guys. I had sort of alighted upon VSE before asking, but its interesting to here your views. By way of comparison, I have just had an Aston DB4GT engine rebuilt. Anyone care to have a stab at the cost, carried out by RS Williams. The engine is superb producing 330 bhp and 390 ft lbs of torque.

If you are prepared to paytheir costs, go to Rob Beere for your E TYpe engine. His work is superb.

[andrewh]

well the engine build was ?35k plus the vat! I know he has just rebuilt another standard DB4 to GT spec, with new head and cams etc and that cost ?70k incl vat. Do they really cost that much more to rebuild than an XK engine? Will look into Rob Beere, thx for that

[JEP41]

Hi Andrew

Having owned and worked on my own Aston DB5 which I bought in 1974 for 800 pounds sterling (wish I still had it, I loved that car). I had to pay 2000 sterling to have the head rebuilt by a guy called Robin Hamilton back then. So figuring in inflation and RS Williams reputation I would say 25,000 sterling today.

[MarkE]

I fear that with cars like the Aston and 12 cylinder Ferraris that work is really priced to market. The GT engine does have the special head with the twin sparks and the twin distributors, but otherwise it?s pretty straightforward. I think that I?d be asking for an itemised bill, Andrew. I?m certain that you haven?t been ripped off, but you have paid to have the engine built and guaranteed by one of ?the? names, which will of course all add to the value of the car and the provenance. By the sounds of it, the engine is tweaked as well, so a bit of expensive head work may well have been completed. Does it now have bigger valves and higher lift cams than before?

But as a piece of work, it can be broken down to see just how much you?ve spent on having the job done by one of the best! The parts are mainly hand made rather than off-the-shelf Jaguar items, but it?s hard to see where ?35k goes. I can more easily understand the ?70k if he had to have a new head and the twin distributor / higher compression piston arrangement.

If you had a completely knackered engine to start with, then here are a few considerations. Cosworth will make a set of 6 pistons to any spec for under ?2000?probably another ?2000 for the liners if they were required. Things like crankshaft and camshaft shells would probably be quite expensive as well, so maybe another ?1000 for those. The Cam chain, tensioner, gaskets, clutch etc?..I?m struggling to get near ?1000 for that lot. Carburettor overhaul on triple twinchoke webers is very straightforward, maybe ?600. The expensive bit maybe the head, but for components it?s only valves and springs, guides and valve seats, so maybe another ?1000.

Add in having the cams re-faced, the crank re-ground, a bit of re-facing of the head, getting the seats and guides in, re-balancing all components, and that?s maybe ?1000 external & machining work?nothing different to any other aluminium head here.

So we?re up to ?8000, and that?s being quite generous with the component margins! Let?s round it up to ?10,000 and include a very expensive re-build on the dynamo, starter motor and a new water pump?and overhaul the distributors, and paint it all to perfection. If you knew where to go, I?m sure that the component costs could be reduced considerably from that.

So without parts and machining costs, to pull the engine out of the car, strip the engine, re-assemble with blueprinting (so double assembly) then dyno test and set up for a day, replace the engine and road test?..?25,000. There would be a good 3 or 4 weeks work there for an engine builder, with probably another few days for assistance. So with service manager?s time as well, we?re looking at ?5k wages, being generous. That leaves ?20k for overheads and ??.a little margin!!!

Harry, you?re in the right business but with the wrong car?switch to Astons!!

Jaguar main agents are not so different though. I bought an XJR-s a few years back that had ?28k spent on it in the previous 3 years, all at a main Jaguar agent. The invoices are an inch thick. But analysing them with a specialist Jaguar but non-main agent chum, we concluded that the car had about ?7k of real value added. Some of that was down to sheer incompetence and doing things twice, but most of it was down to the hourly rate of ?110 an hour. Needless to say I don?t go anywhere near Jag agents!

I was very lucky when I had my E type engine rebuilt. It was by a retired chap who had served his apprenticeship with Daimler in the 50s, then went on to work with Jaguars in the 60s, and Ferraris and Astons in the 70s and 80s. During his time with the Ferraris and Astons he headed up the engine shops. Whilst he was doing my car he also had a V12 Ferrari, a straight 6 Aston and a V8 Aston engine in to do. The 6 cylinder Aston engine took him about the same time to do as my E type engine, in fact, the E type probably took a little longer as it was all gummed up in the oil galleries. He did the valves and recessed seats on the Aston, which was a very simple bit of work from his viewpoint, but a bit more work than the E Type for the machining work.

From memory the Aston 6 cylinder engine was about ?6k all up (but he didn?t have to remove it or replace it in the car) and the Ferrari V12 about ?10k. He would have been the guy who would have overseen the rebuilds at the respective Aston and Ferrari garages, and did say that his work was probably less than 25% of the price that the specialists he worked for would have charged. That was 12 years ago.

With a car like the GT worth ?250k - ?400k a buyer would expect to see invoices like the one you've just paid, and not one from Joe Bloggs for a quarter of the price, even though he taught the guy who built your engine how to do it! The bottom line is that you have a proper Aston, not a Chelsea cruiser, and one of the most stunning cars ever to come out of the UK except one?my favourite, the DB4 GT Zagato!!

[andrewh]

Thanks Mark, some great analysis and very sound words. You are of course completely correct in that the RSW name does add a great deal to the value of the car, and he is arguably the worlds most experienced at working on these engines. A visit to his premises and a viewing of his engineering facilities is mindboggling, probably why he is contracted to rebuild all six cylinder engines for Aston Martin themselves. The engine was out of the car and not completely knackered really quite good, but it was more a precautionary rebuild as the rest of the car was being rebuilt as well. In the process , RSW did add in a few "trick" bits which he carries out on most of his engine rebuilds which vastly increases the torque of the engines. Clearly, it is blueprinted as well, which engines straight from the factory were not. I know , for instance that he has fitted new valve, which increase torque, Corrilo Rods and Cosworth pistons. I am fairly sure the cams were not reprofiled as they are pretty punchy in standard form. I have a photo somewhere I will post if I can find it. I do suspect that the work is priced to the cars, and it does annoy me a tad, but if you want to sell the car in the future you have to have the names on the receipts!

[vipergts]

Andrew........That's a good looking engine.

Bet you can wait to get out in the old girl. 8)

[andrewh]

Thanks mate, yes only a few weeks now and I can go fetch it. Want to drive it back rather than have it delivered so just waiting for all the salt to go and roads to clear up. By the way, well done on your restoration project. I will follow progress with great interest as want to do a series one FHC myself. What are you going to do with the shell, send it away?

[andrewh]

[MarkE]

Stop putting this automotive porn on here.....t?s taken me an hour to clean the drool from my keyboard after the last picture!!!

I just had a look at the Williams website, and I hadn?t realised that they have full machine facilities and a dyno in shop?..this would put the price up, and that is the price of maintaining quality.

I guess it?s the difference between a Savile Row suite and a cheapo Armani off the peg job

But just to show what you can get if you track down a one-man band who knows his stuff. This was a different chap to the one who built my E Type engine?this one specialises in the V12. My 6 litre XJR-s had a noisy camchain and a few oil leaks and needed a freshen up. The engine was removed, stripped and rebuilt with all new Jaguar parts, and everything re-plated or re-painted as required. Drive in ? drive out price was ?2600?.no, there isn?t a zero missing! The engine has run beautifully for the past 3 years, and still looks as good today.

It?s worth trying to seek out these guys, and the local Jag or Aston club is a good place to start.

[andrewh]

Ha thx, that V12 looks absolutely stunning. I agree if you can find someone on his own in a shop it can be done. Its the attention to detail on the outside which makes the job look good too. Is your v12 chappee in the UK? superb

[GSR 54D]

Sorry couldn't resist, thought we ought to include an e-type engine to compliment the others!!

John H

[1954Etype]

Sorry couldn't resist, thought we ought to include an e-type engine to compliment!!

John H

John, looks nice. All you need now is the correct engine breather and you have a concours winner!

[christopher storey]

The breather looks exactly correct to me for a 4.2

[GSR 54D]

I'll get on to it........seriously though in the flesh the engine is not quite in the league of concours, amazing how a glossy picture can make a good impression. However the engine does compliment my stainless steel spoked Daytons! Christopher, a 4.2 it is, I will do some research to satisfy my mind.

John H

[daverawle]

Mine's a '63 and there was no way the metal pipe arrangement would fit so mine's as the picture with a bit of rubber hose.
Dave