Engine seized after rebuild?

[ysmalkie]

I think I need the wisdom of the list..

I have rebuild my 3.8 engine about 1.5 years ago while awaiting the car from the paint.
The engine was tested on the bench (trolley) and was running perfectly well. I have run the engine maybe 10 times after the rebuild for about 2-3 hours all together. The engine was fully assembled, with cooling system.

The engine got installed about a year ago, while I was assembling my car. I finally came to the spot where I wanted to start it last week and to my surprise, the engine did not move, draining the battery.

I removed the plugs, checked if there was nothing inside the cylinders and tried to move it by a wrench on the front crankshaft bolt, but no luck. Dead frozen.
I have just poured about 50ml of Master Blaster into each cylinder to see if it will help half an hour ago and plan to wait to see if it will move.
To be honest, I am getting horrified. I honestly cannot imagine pulling it all apart again .

As this was actually the first engine I tried to rebuild, it has been assembled to specs with a lot of consulting with folks like Rob Beere, etc.
Assembled with Mahle pistons & bearings..
A fellow mechanic who helped me to tune it commented how smoothly it was running.
Of course, I could have done a mistake somewhere on the way..


Tadek

[1954Etype]

Tadek, before panicking, make sure that nothing else is causing the engine to lock. It might be transmission or some other external issue.

[mgcjag]

Hi Tadek....remove the starter motor just in case its jammed on the flywheel then try turning by hand....Steve

[ysmalkie]

Many thanks for quick responses.

Angus, When the car is neutral, I can move the car without much trouble. So I would guess the engine is free from the rear end.

The engine was tested with the gearbox on - is there anything else that could be jamming it?

Steve, the starter motor is clicking when I puch the dash button - do you think it can be jammed somehow?How??

Tadek

[mgcjag]

Possible......take it out....to eliminate it as a possible cause......Steve

[1954Etype]

I’d go with Steve’s response Tadek. Just go over what’s different from when you turned it over outside the car from fitting it. Don’t force anything though!

[PeterCrespin]

Ten starts of a few minutes each is not long enough to get such a heavy engine hot enough to displace all corrosive condensation. Nevertheless, you would have to be very unlucky to suffer a corrosion related seizure - although Mahle pistons are tightest fit of any alloy pistons I’ve ever read about in iron cylinders. Isn’t the suggested clearance something like 0.0015-0.002”?

[ysmalkie]

Wisdom here is amazing..

Steve,

you may be right about the starter....

Before reading your comment (do NOT force it) I tried to move the engine with a scredriver from the hole in the bellhousing.
It did move, freeing up again. it turned easily. So I engaged the starter again: it clicked and freezed.

I will try to remove the starter tomorrow.

What could be wrong with the starter????
Worked every time before...

THANK YOU!!
Tadek

[mgcjag]

Hi Tadek....what starter do you have....the original...or a newer high torque......if a high torque is it the correct model......you have a 3.8 engine i think.......do you also have a 3.8 bell houseing snd a 3.8 flywheel......if you have a mixture of any of these then you will need a starter made for a mix of parts......Steve

[ysmalkie]

Yes, this could be an issue..

I have:
- 3.8 engine
- original 3.8 starter
- 3.8 flywheel
- 4.2 gearbox & 4.2 bellhousing.

I also have a 4.2 starter lying around. (it's different design though, as you know)
I also have some spare spacers for the Lucas starter if this could solve the issue.


Tadek

[mgcjag]

This is a problem......you either use all 3.8 parts...or all 4.2 parts......if you mix/match bell houseing and flywheel then you need to use a starter to suite( high torque style)......Fossway sell them off the shelf...or Powerlite will assrmble one for you make sure you tell them what set up you have and as you have a 4.2 bell and 3.8 fly ask if their starter needs a spacer(spigot plate).....you should see in your 4.2 bell houseing that the starter mount holes are shouldered holes to take ring dowles to locate a 4.2 style spacer/starter and fit the starter in the correct position......Steve

[ysmalkie]

Shhit..

I presume the 3.8 starter will not engage properly, am I right?..
...and I cannot use the 4.2 starter due to different amount of teeth in the flywheel?

Is there no pinion that I could use to mount the 4.2 starter?

What's the difference with teeth?

Tadek

[mgcjag]

Hi Tadek....the 4.2 fly has 133 teeth...the 3.8 has 104 teeth.....the flywheels have different diameters. ......as far as im aware you cant change a 4.2 or 3.8 starter pinion to work....so you need the high torque unit.....useing mix/match parts is quite common in "kit" builds.....im doing a C type build so the the high torque is your only option unless you want to change either your flywheel or bellhouseing.....the fittings for the starter drilled into the bellhouseing are in different positions for the 4.2/3.8 starter........if you really know what your doing you could i suppose use your 3.8 starter but reposition the fixing holes in the bell houseing........Steve

[ysmalkie]

Seems I was definitely not knowing what I was doing..

Well, with the amount of space available, I think that's mission impossible..

...if you really know what your doing you could i suppose use your 3.8 starter but reposition the fixing holes in the bell houseing........Steve

Many thanks Steve. I guess I need to contact Fosseway.

I was trying to keep the car as original as possible - I thought I could use the original starter....

Tadek

[mgcjag]

Well at least your engine is ok.......you just need a new starter......good news is you can sort it when the clutch needs replaceing .....find out from fossway if you need the spacer and ring dows for your 4.2 bellhouseing....and if for their starter the fixing bolts are same as a 4.2 car...all tbe best.......Steve

[ysmalkie]

Yes, I will sing along 'always look on the bright side of live'... ;-)

Many thanks Steve. Great help!

Tadek

[mgcjag]

Just for info Fossway list FPS 581 for 3.8 ring gear/4.2 bellhouseing.......FPS 580 for 4.2 ring gear/3.8 bellhouseing......Steve

[angelw]

Peter Wrote:

although Mahle pistons are tightest fit of any alloy pistons I’ve ever read about in iron cylinders. Isn’t the suggested clearance something like 0.0015-0.002”?

Hello Peter,
The other way around. Following are the sizes and recommended clearances for Mahle and Hepolite (and others) standard size pistons:

Mahle piston at skirt (measured at 90 degrees to gudgeon pin) = 86.895 mm. Recommended clearance 0.10mm total 86.995 mm

Hepolite piston at skirt (measured at 90 degrees to gudgeon pin) = 86.965 mm. Recommended clearance 0.03mm total 86.995 mm

Regards,

Bill

[mylesw]

Speak to Rob Beere, he solved this issue for me by changing the pinion on the starter. I also have a 4.2 bellhousing/gearbox on my 3.8.

Myles

[mgcjag]

Hi Myles....what flywheel.....and what starter.....an original type for 3.8 or 4.2 or a high torque unit.....Steve edit...i see from your previous post you had a starter problem. ...you said it was a modern type(high torque)