HI Torque starter

[whitesnake]

I fitted a high torque starter to my series 2 4.2 about 18 months ago because the lucus unit failed.
All has been fine up until the last month when I have experienced 2 failures to turn over and fire up, I can hear the relay and possibly the solenoid clicking but it does not spin,even after numerous checks of wiring and rocking the engine. Then after a few minutes I can go back and try it and it fires up, very suspect.
Has anyone else experienced trouble with these starters, I suspect the solenoid and will take starter off and get it checked as I cannot trust it but it is annoying as these starters are supposed to be the end of starter problems.
All comments and help appreciated.
Steve.

[tim wood]

I think it depends on what you bought and who from. Some of these “new” starters are reportedly cosmetically improved and-fitted with an adapter plate to suit different engines.
A few threads on jag lovers forum about this.
I had one fail and on inspection clearly was a mix of old and new parts.

[cactusman]

Can't comment on the high torque starters but my 3.8 retains it original starter which will spin the engine very well. My tentative suspicion is that problems people have with starters are often due not to the starter motors themselves but to either poor connections in the high current supply to them or to the solenoid which becomes unreliable due to contact pitting. My starter cranked slowly but measurement of the voltage across the solenoid terminals during cranking showed it was losing more than two volts. A new solenoid and the old starter was just fine once again. Not saying old starter motors can't fail but look to the solenoid first....I'd suspect your solenoid has indeed failed assuming the high current feed AND earth returns are both secure..

[whitesnake]

Yes, I bought from reputable supplier, have to check my invoices for exactly who and all connections are tight and once it does start all seems fine again. I will remove and check anyway.
Steve.

[PeterCrespin]

The moving solenoid is fine by the sound of it and the motor part must be OK if it ever spins. What I think you’ll find wrong is the internal connection where the solenoid pulls two crude steel parts into contact. I’ve dismantled a few and from memory the iron core pulls a big washer against two steel stops. One is connected to the feed cable and the other to the motor below. There are no non-ferrous or precious metal contacts, just thinly-plated steel on steel. Inevitably, there is eventually some rusting or arcing that interfered with current flow. The only question is who owns the car when the problem presents, assuming it is ever used enough to reach that stage.

You will see everything under the rear cover of the integral solenoid. Have some silicone handy as the rubber gasket probably won’t survive. Sand the contacts, spray with WD40 and button up.

[whitesnake]

Thanks Pete, will pull it off and dismantle to see what I find. Hopefully a good clean will do the trick.
Trouble with electricals is you never know when a problem will strike.
Steve.

[44DHR]

Steve,
I had a similar problem with my Hi Torque starter,(Fosseway Performance, a great piece of kit), which had started to fail to work after the car was put away and when I came to use it after several weeks. Sometimes I would engage the car in gear and rock it, in my belief the solenoid was stuck and this sometimes got the starter to work. Generally the symptoms were that on turning the key and pushing the starter, the ignition lights would dim and cut out.
Having wasted time on checking the ignition switch and the push button, I was about to remove and strip the starter when I finally worked out the problem.
Embarrassingly, it was the small spade terminal - the ignition “exciter” wire onto the starter solenoid ! It just required a firm tweaking with some pliers to ensure a very tight fit to the male terminal. I guess in some of my attempts in rocking the car the connection had been re-established, but my diagnosis was that when the car was running ok, the motor had become very hot and maintained a connection, but when I drove the working car into the garage and let it cool down, the next time I came to use it, the connection was again very poor.
So, before anything, ensure both the main heavy battery wire is firmly connected - as this itself goes onto a fairly small M8 post held with a 13mm flange nut - which itself can vibrate loose under engine movement relative to the fixed heavy feed cable, plus get a really good connection on that small “exciter” wire crimp.
Regards,
Dave

[cactusman]

One would hope the contacts are.not plain steel! They should be at the very least copper and ideally copper base with a proper contact material on top to prevent them welding together Steel rusts and is not as good a conductor as copper...important in high current applications. Pure copper on both sides may weld together which would also be bad

[whitesnake]

Dave , Thanks for your comments, I have recrimped the spade connection on starter and thought this might have solved it but it happened again. I have just changed earth wire to engine as this was slightly frayed and very oily( haha), just doing this was 2 hour.
job as had to remove exhaust front pipes to get access.
Will check starter when get time and follow Petes service regime.
Problem is when I check things they seem ok but it can unexpectedly let me down, will just keep eliminating things.
Steve.

[44DHR]

Steve,
A good earth is definitely required with any form of starter. I run an additional earth wire on my car.
The main black plastic coated copper wired cable direct from the battery earth terminal goes onto the body location bolt. From that bolt I run a second black plastic copper coated cable onto the engine block bolted to the the horizontal flange to the gearbox, just behind the oil dipstick hole to ensure the starter motor is directly well earthed and not reliant on passing through the car body. A second uncovered flexible braided cable then runs from that same locating bolt on the engine block back up to the body to locate onto one of the four side frame bolts.
I hope you locate your starter problem, as like you, I find electrical issues the most frustrating to solve, but I wanted to hold my hands up to what eventually - for me - was a schoolboy error and just so pleased to have found it.
Cheers,
Dave

[PeterCrespin]

One would hope the contacts are.not plain steel! They should be at the very least copper and ideally copper base with a proper contact material on top to prevent them welding together Steel rusts and is not as good a conductor as copper...important in high current applications. Pure copper on both sides may weld together which would also be bad

Hope is, I believe, “the evidence for things not seen” or some such. One look inside a cheap gear reduction starter may leave you with only prayer once you see how the solenoid contacts work. There were some brass or plated bits in the motor itself but I’ll take a few pix inside a spare gear reduction starter later if I remember.

[cactusman]

...based on experience with both my MG and E type, the original starter motor and solenoid are fine providing they are serviced periodically...just my opinion.