Diff Output Shafts - 2nd Type Ball v Taper Roller Bearing types

[44DHR]

I had a call to go and see a friend regarding his Series 2 E Type back axle. I expected one of the issues could be with the poor oil seal arrangement and the now obsolete original double ball bearings used in the Type 2 Differential, (Diff), Output Shafts.
However, on viewing the car it did not have the Type 2 Diff and it was a not a LSD Diff as I had expected. The Type 2 Diff should not be confused with being exclusive to the Series 2 E Type, but these type of Diffs which used the double ball bearings were introduced in around 1970 to replace the previous version, (Type 1 unsurprisingly !), which used Taper Roller bearings, but around 1975, the balls were dropped (!) and the Taper rollers were reintroduced into these Salisbury 4HA Powr-Lok Diffs. Because of the dates the ball bearings were used, this just coincides with many of the Series 2 E types having them.
In order to explain the issues around the Type 2 output shafts and why people fit the Taper rollers Output shafts, I lugged a couple of my spare diffs onto the bench and while I had them there and took some photos, I thought the images could be a useful reference to the Forum.

The two Output Shafts. On the left a later Taper Roller from an XJS Diff and on the right an earlier Type 2 Ball bearing unit. Note the later unit has the bearings inside the housing which itself has an external O ring to fit and seal into the Diff casing. The external surface of the Type 2 unit is actually the outer surface of the Double Ball Bearing.



The Type 2 Diff is hard to distinguish externally, but usually has a Suffix “C” in the unit serial number.



Both Diff casings are the same internal diameter to facilitate the fitting of the different Output shafts. Note the Type 2 has an internal O ring.



The later Diff casing does not have the internal O ring as it seals using it’s own external O ring on the bearing housing.



Two final photos with no particular reference to the dimension, but just to show a dimension of the overall length of the roller housing to the mounting flange and the second photo showing the bigger Type 2 overall length. This allows the roller housing to fit into the Diff casing if this better form of bearing and oil sealing arrangement was required.





Hope that was of interest !
Cheers,
Dave

[Gfhug]

Hello Dave, always interesting to learn more about our cars. Didn’t the third type of diff arrive circa 69 as I’m sure that was what was on my August 69 build car? Not on it any longer and don’t have photos showing the lack of C or other identification. Also, AFAIK all UK manual S2 didn’t have LSD.

Cheers

Geoff

Edited to add: found a note showing number B70 C 5921
So did have the C after all. Isn’t one of the changes to third version to do with how the brake callipers are attached? Just some memory of that being a relevant detail. I’m sure you’ll know, Dave

[44DHR]

Hi Geoff,
I wasn’t too sure on dates, which I why I said “about”. I would be surprised if the change away from the Type 2 would be that early.
Not to sure about the Type 3 changing the brake calliper mounts as both these two Diffs on the bench have the same integral cast brake mountings.
The key point was that were several types of Output shafts - I didn’t mention the initial external nut type of Output Shafts, but I just wanted to highlight if a car had Type 2 diff, the roller bearing type of Output Shafts could be retrospectively fitted.
Cheers,
Dave

[Gfhug]

Dave, your post is about the output shafts and has very useful and detailed info about them. FYI Just had a look in Clausager and he says “final drive unit changed to third type with new caliper fixing” July 69, if that helps complete your data for this.

Cheers and thanks again

Geoff

[44DHR]

Geoff,
We just crossed over !
Still surprised that the Type 3 was so soon. That would make the Type 2 fairly short lived. Perhaps they realised there was a problem with the Type 2 arrangement ?
Regards,
Dave

[mgcjag]

Info on the 3 types of diff......the type 3 diff o/p shafts use the double row of ball bearings in a collapsible cage for pre load.....this collapsable bearing is no longer available...the replacement provided by the usual suppliers is actually shorter than the original and spacers are provided with them....however useing them is far from satisfactory as you cant get preload becaus the bearing dosnt collaps......far better to use the later xjs/xj6 o/p shafts that use taper bearings and have a better oil seal arrangement.......also the C suffix can be missleading...iv seen a few diffs with a C suffix they all had the type 3 o/p shaft.........photo of a 1969 diff C suffix fitted with type 3 o/p shafts.........Steve

[44DHR]

Sorry Guys,
I seem to be adding more to the confusion on the identity of the various Types, whether Type 1, 2 or 3 - as used specifically on the E Type model.
The point I was trying to explain was that the Taper Roller Output Drive shaft from a much later Jaguar XJS Differential, (1992 was the year I think I took the IRS from), would fit into an earlier Jaguar Ball Bearing equipped Differential.
Steve’s post above clarifies that I was confusing the “C”, (which I now see is not a suffix as shown in Steve’s photo), being stamped on my Diff as the “C” required to identifying the unit as a “2nd Type” Diff - even SNG Barrett’s parts catalogue identifies the Suffix “C” to be a “2nd Type” - but as Steve says the “C” stamping can be confusing !
I was believing that to be a “2nd Type” Diff, when in the case of the E Type this is a Ball Bearing unit defined as the “3rd Type”. I understand there have been several different Driveshafts on these Salisbury 4HA Diffs used on many cars - from the very early shaft which had an external nut to the drive flange - then moving onto the integral shaft and drive flange with the two Bearing variations.
Because I have worked on all types of these Salisbury 4HA Diffs coming from many Jaguar models, I have become confused with the actual types as used on the specific model of the E Type, so my apologies for any confusion.
Regards,
Dave

[mgcjag]

Hi Dave.....its all good info for anyone searching on diff o/p shafts....most wont even delve into a diff......Steve

[Gfhug]

Comments from Alan Slawson is that he can get far better quality bearings for a second type diff than the third.
I had a second type 3.54 limited slip diff and third type 3.07 non LSD to create an overhauled 3.07 powrlok. He said it was better to use the second type and accept the older brake caliper attachment.

Geoff