Series1.5 steering column conversion LHD to RHD

[Heronscourt]

I’m in the process of restoring a series 1.5 roadster and converting to RHD. My issue is that the LHD upper column does not transfer over. The mounting points for RHD are different on the RH side to the left. eg LHD lower bracket has two holes as per dash. RH dash position has four holes. When trying to fit it nothing lines up. Upper and lower columns don’t align, gap between is too great for UJ to span and in any case UJ would foul underside of dash. Has any one encountered this issue and found a solution. SNG don’t seem to have RHD series 1.5 parts. Series 2 RHD upper column would appear to be same as LHD and the attachment points are the same. Will series 1 4.2 upper column parts inc new mounting brackets work and will the series 1.5 LHD lower column fit this arrangement.
Any advice will be most welcome as it’s holding up progress

[abowie]

I did a 1.5 coupe a number of years ago.

My vague memory is that you need to drill 2 holes in the body and push bolts through them for the ?bottom 2 holes on the column mount.

There may have been a bit of judicious panel beating in the footwell to get it all to clear.

There is also an aluminium spacer strip that you don't use on the RHD.

Hopefully someone who has done this more recently will chime in.

[abowie]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0wogm2shyvd81 ... 1.pdf?dl=1

Here you go. Page 2 top right.

[neal herridge]

Yes the S1 upper column assy. will fit your 1.5 but you need the inner & outer plus brackets etc.
You also need the lower steering column C20487 as this has the forged in fork for the lower UJ.
It may be possible to add a UJ joint assy. to your lower shaft.
I did carry out the conversion you are doing for someone a few years ago & this was the way I went , it was to much work to try to use the 1.5 parts & as Andrew said there would be a far bit of panel beating to do.
If you use all S1 parts it works fine cost is of course another matter.
Hope this helps Neal.

[Heronscourt]

Thanks Neal, sorry about late response but I’d almost made up my mind which way to go when your post confirmed it and I’ve been trying to go down that route. I purchased the new brackets and ordered bolts, elastomer bearings etc ( yet to arrive ), outer tube and upper column. However when loosely assembled with the indicator arm attached to the top of the tube and the cancelling finger attached to the column the column does not protrude through the bottom of the tube to allow the UJ to be located. Conclusion, I either have the wrong column or wrong tube. My upper column measures 290mm long and is supposed to be
part no C20160. My outer tube is part no C23053. Barratt’s on line catalogue shows column no C20160 is common to all 4.2 models up to the end of series 1.5. It also shows the tube as common to series 1 and 1.5 cars but the catalogue shows a different illustration which possibly appears shorter. Do you happen to know the length of column no C20160 or do you have a record of which parts you used.
I think Andrew’s reference to the need for drilling and panel beating refers to using LHD parts on the right hand side as the series 1.5 mounting points appear to be the same as series one. It’s just that LHD uses the series 2 upper column.
I’ve been trying to attach photos of what I have but keep getting a message that the files are too big no matter how I try to downsize them. If I can find a way I’ll post them

[neal herridge]

I will take some measurements in the next few days, I can also take some pictures but it will be a S1 car.
I purchased all the parts from Hutson's.
If you can post the pictures that will help, if not PM me & I will give you my email to send them to.
Neal.

[Heronscourt]

Hi Neal, I have had problems attaching photos but think I’ve got that sorted, as you’ll see I’ve bought series 1 / 1.5 parts but with the indicator/horn push attached the column spline doesn’t protrude through the tube enough to locate the UJ

[Heronscourt]

This column measures 29cm long. I’ve seen posts with longer shafts. Does anyone know if this is correct or do I need a longer shaft. What length are the new Barrett shafts. They haven’t got one in stock to measure but think 30cm or there abouts

[tinworm]

Wrong outer tube is the problem here. The S1 4.2 had a slightly different arrangement for the indicator switch .There are some photos on here somewhere comparing two or three columns . The column shafts are all the same length - but the slip ring mounting can be in two different places.
The photo is someone elses not mine but shows the variations. Note the different tops to the tubes on numbers 1 and 3 (top to bottom)

Barrie

[Heronscourt]

Thanks for the post. The top tube looks to be shorter at the top end and would work without the indicator locating lugs but this tube doesn’t seem to be available.
The attached photos show Barratts version of the series 1 / 1.5 tube and the inside of my indicator with the white plastic section which sits past the end of the tube

[tinworm]

Well which way you go with this is up to you. To recap you have a 3.8/early 4.2 inner column and outer tube plus a late s1.5/s2 switch. The late s1 4.2 columns had mounting flags brazed to the outer tube (rather than a bolt on bracket) this used the s1 indicator switch. The later switch had a plastic ring actuator and the outer tube was reduced in length to accommodate this. The switch you have is a late s1.5/s2 switch for the collapsible column which had no provision for a horn rod - so they moved the horn to the stalk . All s1.5 RHD used the rigid column (at least as far as I can tell currently) and a correct one is at the top in my previous photograph. So your options are -
a. change the outer tube to a later type if you can find one but you may find the slip ring position has moved in which case you will need the inner column to match.
b. change the switch to a 3.8/early 4.2 type. This will allow the inner column to sit lower down and protrude far enough for you to connect the lower column.
Barratt will not have anything for RHD s1.5 (with collapsible column) as such an animal never existed as aforesaid.
Let us know how you get on

regards Barrie

[Robsan]

I thought that RHD 1.5 were manufactured,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, are you saying the 321 OTS RHD did not have collapsable steeering column with horn push on indicator ?

http://www.xkedata.com/stats/

[tinworm]

Hello Robsan Federal only for S1.5 collapsible upper column I believe - If you have evidence to refute this I will be very happy to receive it.


Barrie

[Robsan]

I thought I had understood the logistics, parts and information [ including the knowledge base article] for converting s LHD car to RHD

For my 1968 series 1.5 LHD car had noticed that the indent was there on RH side and had therefore assumed as lomg as I got all the parts then it was a relatively simple changeover !

is this post suggesting that there is another variant [ LHD Federal cars] for which an additional and specific set of parts are required ??

If so ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

can we ask XKE Data to add a referance

Update the knowledge base articles

perhaps ammend title of this post to indicate its a Federal spec LHD to RHD conversion ?

apolgies if I have misunderstood

[tinworm]

Hello Robsan , I have researched this over a period of time and just to clarify -

The RHD S1.5's (at least the UK ones) were all (as far as I can tell) fitted with the rigid S1.5 or late S1 steering column and the S1 centre dash with the ignition switch on that panel and the horn push in the centre of the steering wheel active.
The LHD S1.5s were a different story due to American regulations the construction of cars had to change . The first type of column had the ignition switch mounted on the column by a separate bracket (these were available in LHD ONLY (no RHD part number exists) and were fitted to cars without air con. If air con was fitted the ignition switch was placed on the end of the aircon control panel. These columns were fitted on Federal cars from about OCT '67. The second type of column with the casting for the ignition switch to lock the column was introduced around FEB '68 and was initially fitted with a similar bracket for the ignition switch which Jaguar only list for LHD and not for RHD - UNTIL S2 production started in AUG '68 then the bracket was available in RHD form as all UK production then had the collapsible column.
I have heard stories of cars fitted with two ignition switches - but have never seen one. Jaguar had a habit of using up spare parts and some cars were fitted with earlier parts - again I have no direct knowledge of these. The European cars were also a different story and I have done no research on these variants. The modifications Jaguar did on the RHS of the bulkhead did not impinge on RHD production as far as I can tell .
If anyone has any information about this subject and would like to further our knowledge of these interim cars please put it up on the forum

regards Barrie

[neal herridge]

I see this has moved on a bit , sorry not to have got the dim. sooner .
The length of the outer column on a S1 4.2 1965/1966 is 198 mm .
This is just the tube length.
Hope this helps Neal.

[Heronscourt]

Sorry I’m late responding to all the update posts. I’ll try to cover them in this reply. Firstly dealing with Robsan and tinworms posts re LHD cars:- Series 1.5 LHD cars had the collapsible upper and lower columns to comply with Federal requirements. They also had the horn push incorporated in the indicator stalk. RHD cars did not have these features but had the same arrangement as the series 1 4.2 cars. It’s not possible to just switch the LHD steering column over to RHD. The lower attachment point on the RHD side of the car is solely for the RHD tube and bracket, the top bracket is also different in that on RHD cars it incorporates rake adjustment. The LHD upper assembly with the collapsible tube attaches to the top bracket and underside of the dash in a different manner. The LHD lower column is shorter than the RHD column. Without the series1 lower bracket the top UJ fouls the underside of the dash. The conversion requires series 1 mounting brackets, outer tube, upper column, bearings, lower column and UJs. I believe it’s still possible to use the indicator with the horn but the problem I’ve found is that only one tube is listed for both series1 & 1.5 cars and when the switch is mounted the upper column does not protrude from the bottom of the tube sufficiently to mount the UJ.
Addressing this point Neal says the tube needed measures 198mm whereas the Barrat tube measures 220mm. The section above the top mounting point seems longer on the Barrat series 1 illustration than the series 1.5 illustration but the part number given is the same. It seems that the overhang of the switch at the top of the tube pushes the column too far back, leaving the column short at the bottom of the tube. Bearing in mind that all outer tubes except LHD cars have tubes with mounting points in the same dimensional relationship at present I think it is possible to shorten the top of the tube by around 16/20 mm which will allow the column to protrude at the bottom of the tube. There is still enough room to mount the indicator shroud and probably the adapted ignition mounting plate from the LHD car which doesn’t have the steering lock.
Tinworms photo of a collection of upper columns show the tube at the top of the photo which is shorter and may fit but we don’t know what car it’s from or if it’s available anywhere. Any comments on my idea to shorten the tube would be welcome.

[abowie]

All that I can tell you is that I did a LHD to RHD conversion on my first car 1E34749 about 10 years ago. It was built in September 1967.

I was able to use all of the LHD steering components on that car. I do not recall having to modify the column.

I'm looking to see if I have any photos at the moment. I believe I ended up with the indicator on the left and the ignition switch on the right.

I did have to drill holes for bolts and I did not use the aluminium spacer piece, and I did have to peen the panels for clearance of the UJ and to allow the column to hinge up high enough.

The shorter column in the picture may be from a Mk2 saloon.

[abowie]

[MarkRado]

Wow, what a story and how much knowledge on the forum! But I wonder how many times Jaguar asked themselves what mess they had with just Etype columns at that time.