Koni Shocks

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lyons
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#1 Koni Shocks

Post by lyons » Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:20 pm

Rebuilding rear susupension that came with Koni Shocks.

Realising that they need to come off to adjust, is it worth getting them rebuilt rather than replace.

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abowie
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#2 Re: Koni Shocks

Post by abowie » Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:48 pm

The scuttlebutt on the net is that the "adjustability" in Konis is as much about being able to compensate for wear as it is about fine tuning suspension. I have no idea whether this is true or just the thoughts of disgruntled customers.

Personally I wouldn't be bothering to get a shock absorber rebuilt unless the service was a lot cheaper than buying a new unit.

My experience with rear shock absorbers is that we have always just used the non adjustable Boge shocks. Sadly these are NLA but I believe that the usuals sell a Monroe shock as a replacement. Having adjustability on the rear doesn't seem to be a big issue with E types in my experience.

For a long time correct rear E type springs were not available to buy new. What was sold by the usuals resulted in incorrect rear ride height.

However recently while researching uprated suspension for my Mk2 I came across BCC, a company in Sheffield who make springs for Jags. They claim to be manufacturing correct replacement springs for E types.

I have no idea whether they are good or not, although the reputation of their Mk2 products seems good.

https://britishclassiccarparts.com/coll ... rer_jaguar
Andrew.
881824, 1E21538. 889457. 1961 4.3l Mk2. 1975 XJS. 1962 MGB
http://www.projectetype.com/index.php/the-blog.html
Adelaide, Australia

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Heuer
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#3 Re: Koni Shocks

Post by Heuer » Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:43 am

Koni's were designed and manufactured in the Netherlands in the early 1950's to cope with the broken up roads of war torn Europe. The 'adjustable' compoonent was indeed to increase lognevity by allowing owners to stiffen up the shocks as they quickly wore. In the 1960's with motor sport gaining in popularity the racers adopted them as they could be stiffened up to cope with various track conditions. The name Koni became a by word for 'racing intent' and their bright red colour further enhanced their desirability for boy racers in their road cars.

Actually Koni's characteristics are a poor match to the E-Type's torsion bar front suspension and rear IRS so they are best avoided. Their 'adjustability' is a moot point as making any change requires their removal from the car. I had Koni's on my OTS and three of them failed within 5,000 miles at which point I threw them all away and fitted Bge which transformed the handling. Boge are no longer available (although there are rumours they may return to production) so Monroe's are, AFAIK, the only game in town.
David Jones
S1 OTS OSB; S1 FHC ODB
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vee12eman
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#4 Re: Koni Shocks

Post by vee12eman » Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:08 pm

GAZ shock absorbers are also available. I have them on the rear of my Series 3 but I believe they are available for all models. I like them, they are adjustable for rebound and height, meaning I have not had to replace springs and with the adjustment available in Series 3 cars I can adjust the front and rear ride height without dismantling anything. They are comfortable in use and the handling seems fine. However, I acknowledge that I am more of a mechanic/engineer than a racing driver, so I’m probably not a good judge.
Regards,

Simon
Series III FHC

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#5 Re: Koni Shocks

Post by abowie » Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:52 pm

vee12eman wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:08 pm
GAZ shock absorbers are also available.
I've got these front and rear on the Mk2, and their adjustability has made my attempts at improving that car's ride and handling a lot easier.
Andrew.
881824, 1E21538. 889457. 1961 4.3l Mk2. 1975 XJS. 1962 MGB
http://www.projectetype.com/index.php/the-blog.html
Adelaide, Australia

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pkl03
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#6 Re: Koni Shocks

Post by pkl03 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:02 am

How can adjusting the shocks change the ride height?

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#7 Re: Koni Shocks

Post by pkl03 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:05 am

vee12eman wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:08 pm
GAZ shock absorbers are also available. I have them on the rear of my Series 3 but I believe they are available for all models. I like them, they are adjustable for rebound and height, meaning I have not had to replace springs and with the adjustment available in Series 3 cars I can adjust the front and rear ride height without dismantling anything. They are comfortable in use and the handling seems fine. However, I acknowledge that I am more of a mechanic/engineer than a racing driver, so I’m probably not a good judge.
How can adjusting the shocks change the ride height, is this something specific to the GAZ shocks

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#8 Re: Koni Shocks

Post by abowie » Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:27 am

It doesn't.
Andrew.
881824, 1E21538. 889457. 1961 4.3l Mk2. 1975 XJS. 1962 MGB
http://www.projectetype.com/index.php/the-blog.html
Adelaide, Australia

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vee12eman
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#9 Re: Koni Shocks

Post by vee12eman » Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:08 am

abowie wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:27 am
It doesn't.
Sorry Andrew, but it does if the platform height is adjustable as well as the rebound. I assure you that the GAZ rear shocks on my car DO adjust the height.
You can wind the spring platform up and down.

https://www.gazshocks.com/

Read the details under “ Welcome to GAZ shocks” the height adjustment is in there.
Last edited by vee12eman on Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Regards,

Simon
Series III FHC

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#10 Re: Koni Shocks

Post by mgcjag » Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:16 pm

There are different types of Gaz adjustable.......on some you can only adjust "bounce".....others you can adgust bounce and height (adjustable spring platform)....SNGB have both options and standard non adjustable on their website.......note that adjustable spring platform Gaz require a non standard height spring...Steve
Steve
69 S2 2+2 (just sold) ..Realm C type replica, 1960 xk150fhc

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#11 Re: Koni Shocks

Post by Heuer » Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:56 pm

SNGB are remanufacturing Boge shocks to original specs.
David Jones
S1 OTS OSB; S1 FHC ODB
1997 Porsche 911 Guards Red

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#12 Re: Koni Shocks

Post by vee12eman » Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:33 pm

mgcjag wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:16 pm
.......note that adjustable spring platform Gaz require a non standard height spring...Steve
Hi Steve and all,
I am using my shocks with original springs. In fact that was the whole point, as my car was beautifully sprung with wonderful ride, but just a little low. Now it’s perfect for me at least. Where did you see the rear springs needed to be uprated? I could not find that on SNG.
Regards,

Simon
Series III FHC

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#13 Re: Koni Shocks

Post by mgcjag » Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:49 pm

Hi Simon.....i may be wrong as a while ago i was looking at the S2 adjustable platform Gaz shocks as supplied by SNGB.......someone on tbe forum used them with their original springs and the ride height was way too high.....I spoke to SNG tech guys who said you could only use the adjustable height shock with its shorter special spring....So the S2 may be diffetent from the S3.......however this is the link to the shorter spring but i notice SNG have changed the wording and say its for fast road/ track use.......so best to check the exact model of shock to be fitted snd what springs are suitable for it......Steve https://www.sngbarratt.com/English/#/UK ... 2a70fa6975
Steve
69 S2 2+2 (just sold) ..Realm C type replica, 1960 xk150fhc

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#14 Re: Koni Shocks

Post by vee12eman » Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:15 pm

Thanks Steve,
I saw the fast road/race description, my take is that, given the range of adjustment, height and rebound, you can pretty much do what you want.
Anyway, a complete success as far as I’m concerned, noting this was fitted a few years back on a Series 3 FHC.
Regards,

Simon
Series III FHC

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#15 Re: Koni Shocks

Post by abowie » Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:56 am

vee12eman wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:08 am
abowie wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:27 am
It doesn't.
https://www.gazshocks.com/

Read the details under “ Welcome to GAZ shocks” the height adjustment is in there.
Yes but different beast. You can change the ride height, but you're doing it by altering the spring height and tension, not by adjusting the damper.

Just adjusting the damper settings on the standard spring/damper setting can't alter the height.
Andrew.
881824, 1E21538. 889457. 1961 4.3l Mk2. 1975 XJS. 1962 MGB
http://www.projectetype.com/index.php/the-blog.html
Adelaide, Australia

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#16 Re: Koni Shocks

Post by vee12eman » Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:27 am

We’ll have to agree to disagree. Using a standard spring and raising the platform surely means the lower portion of the shock absorber protrudes further. I get that ultimately there’s a small difference in the range of the shock, because you are using a small part of its range in extending it. This amounts to around 1/4 inch in my case. The spring however is unaffected, since it would default to its natural height. Given that my springs had perhaps slightly shortened, indicating wear/age related sagging I guess, then there is probably some effect. Mind you, I’m not convinced the Konis I had were correct, as they were NOS which came with the dismantled car. The originals were long gone. The car was about 1/2 inch lower than it should be and sleeping policemen plus bottoming the exhaust in fast road compressions were occasionally a problem. Now the car is fine, even when using the rear seats.
Either way, I repeat that I love the ride now and there is nowhere I feel safely tempted to test the handling to its limits.
Regards,

Simon
Series III FHC

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MarekH
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#17 Re: Koni Shocks

Post by MarekH » Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:56 am

Spring height and tension are never dictated by the damper - they are a function of the weight of the car. The same car weight will always take an uncompressed spring and put the same tension on it so the compressed length becomes the new normal.

The ride height a damper dictates is thus by 1/ the height from the top eyelet to the top of the spring PLUS 2/ the compressed length of the spring 3/ PLUS the length of the shock from the bottom of the spring to the bottom eyelet.

The Gaz adjustable shock works by allowing you to alter the that third parameter - the length of the shock between the perch at the bottom of the spring and the bottom eyelet.

Another valid method is to put a spacer in down there. That just makes the third element longer, but by a fixed amount.

How much altering the perch length affects the ride height is a function of geometry - if the damper/spring combo is vertical, it's a 1:1 relationship; if the damper is mounted at 45', then it's obviously 1/square root of 2=> 1:0.707.

The spring is unaffected by all of this - it knows not what length or angle of damper is above it or below it - it only knows to compress when a weight is put on it. As the same weight is being put on it, it compresses the same amount, no matter what.

If this weren't true, imagine a fisherman catching a small fish, holding it up to prove its weight but putting it on a very long hook and claiming it was HUGE. The spring length, showing the weight of the catch, is the same every time. The fish just hangs lower because the hook length is longer, not because the spring length showing the weight is any different.

kind regards
Marek

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#18 Re: Koni Shocks

Post by mgcjag » Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:51 pm

Just an update on the Gaz adjustable height shocks as supplied by SNG.......i visited SNG this morning to collect parts....had a discussion re the shocks......The Gaz adjustable height is ideally to be used with the associated shorter spring. .....S1/2 ots cars definatly need the short spring for correct ride height......S1/2 fhc & 2+2 may get away with original springs but to be sure of correct ride height they reccomend the shorter spring.....S3 cars have a different design shock so original springs can be used on the GAZ adjustable.......Steve
Steve
69 S2 2+2 (just sold) ..Realm C type replica, 1960 xk150fhc

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#19 Re: Koni Shocks

Post by Series1 Stu » Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:27 pm

vee12eman wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:27 am
We’ll have to agree to disagree.
Well, you can choose to disagree but Andrew is correct.

I think your are failing to understand Andrew is saying that adjusting the damping has no effect on the ride height. The ride height is adjusted by varying the preload on the spring, by moving the spring mounting platform which just happens to sit on the damper in a coil over shock assembly. In doing so, you are not adjusting the damper or the damping characteristics.

Altering the damping is done by turning that knurled wheel at the bottom of the damper.

Hope this helps clear this up.

Regards
Stuart

If you can't make it work, make it complicated!

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#20 Re: Koni Shocks

Post by abowie » Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:56 pm

MarekH wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:56 am
The fish just hangs lower because the hook length is longer, not because the spring length showing the weight
Is that Hooke's Law?
Andrew.
881824, 1E21538. 889457. 1961 4.3l Mk2. 1975 XJS. 1962 MGB
http://www.projectetype.com/index.php/the-blog.html
Adelaide, Australia

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