SII - Engine Levelling when refitting engine
#1 SII - Engine Levelling when refitting engine
I have refitted and loosely connected the engine mounts and the bulkhead mount - and I'm just about to wrestle with the 'underneath' gearbox mount.
At the moment the engine looks slightly lopsided - pointing at a few minutes past 12, looking from the front. This confirmed by inspection of the mounts.
I can remember being told (in some previous life) that the trick is to run the engine, with the mounting bolts slightly loose - and the engine will self-adjust its position. I suspect that merely tightening up the bolts now will lock in the lopsidedness!!
Any advice?
Cheers, John C
At the moment the engine looks slightly lopsided - pointing at a few minutes past 12, looking from the front. This confirmed by inspection of the mounts.
I can remember being told (in some previous life) that the trick is to run the engine, with the mounting bolts slightly loose - and the engine will self-adjust its position. I suspect that merely tightening up the bolts now will lock in the lopsidedness!!
Any advice?
Cheers, John C
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#2 Re: SII - Engine Levelling when refitting engine
Hi John.....no the engine isnt "self levelling".....sounds like worn mounts....also shims under the engine mounts..as per the parts catalogue...use as required.......but check when shimming that your bonnet dosnt hit the carb tops when you close it.....Steve
Steve
69 S2 2+2 (just sold) ..Realm C type replica, 1960 xk150fhc
69 S2 2+2 (just sold) ..Realm C type replica, 1960 xk150fhc
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#3 Re: SII - Engine Levelling when refitting engine
You need to do this manually, using whatever force is necessary. Usually rocking it by hand is sufficient.
You don't need to achieve spirit level accuracy but it needs to be level by eye and the bolts on the mounts should be in the same places in the holes on the brackets.
Running the engine, which turns clockwise, will tend to rotate the engine anticlockwise but this isn't going to magically centre it.
WRT the rear gearbox mount. Cut a piece of 3/4" ply to fit the trapezoidal shape of the bracket, but leave you access to the 5 bolt holes. You don't need a hole in the centre.
Lift the bracket up using the piece of ply and a bottle jack in the centre of the ply. Install the bolts.
Be really careful you don't overtighten the bolts. The nuts do rust and will strip easily.
You don't need to achieve spirit level accuracy but it needs to be level by eye and the bolts on the mounts should be in the same places in the holes on the brackets.
Running the engine, which turns clockwise, will tend to rotate the engine anticlockwise but this isn't going to magically centre it.
WRT the rear gearbox mount. Cut a piece of 3/4" ply to fit the trapezoidal shape of the bracket, but leave you access to the 5 bolt holes. You don't need a hole in the centre.
Lift the bracket up using the piece of ply and a bottle jack in the centre of the ply. Install the bolts.
Be really careful you don't overtighten the bolts. The nuts do rust and will strip easily.
Andrew.
881824, 1E21538. 889457. 1961 4.3l Mk2. 1975 XJS. 1962 MGB
http://www.projectetype.com/index.php/the-blog.html
Adelaide, Australia
881824, 1E21538. 889457. 1961 4.3l Mk2. 1975 XJS. 1962 MGB
http://www.projectetype.com/index.php/the-blog.html
Adelaide, Australia
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#4 Re: SII - Engine Levelling when refitting engine
But with a 4.2 the engine should not be quite level : there are shims which go under the right hand mounts ( left hand when viewed from the front ) to prevent the carburetter linkages fouling the frames
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#5 Re: SII - Engine Levelling when refitting engine
...sort of.. The shims are only fitted if there are clearance problems. Which is unusual.
Probably due to body/engine frame mismatch on individual chassis.
Probably due to body/engine frame mismatch on individual chassis.
Andrew.
881824, 1E21538. 889457. 1961 4.3l Mk2. 1975 XJS. 1962 MGB
http://www.projectetype.com/index.php/the-blog.html
Adelaide, Australia
881824, 1E21538. 889457. 1961 4.3l Mk2. 1975 XJS. 1962 MGB
http://www.projectetype.com/index.php/the-blog.html
Adelaide, Australia
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#6 Re: SII - Engine Levelling when refitting engine
quote=abowie post_id=149251 time=1639957022 user_id=952]
…but leave you access to the 5 bolt holes. You don't need a hole in the centre.
[/quote]
meaning the centre pin need not be installed? My S2 had the pin (even with a large washer and a safety pin) when It arrived from the US. I took off the washer and saftey pin, but left the centre pin installed. Can that be omitted? I‘m trying reinstalling the complete engine with exhaust and intake manifolds, from above, the pin is hitting the floor before the engine is able to be leveled.
Thanks,
Martin
…but leave you access to the 5 bolt holes. You don't need a hole in the centre.
[/quote]
meaning the centre pin need not be installed? My S2 had the pin (even with a large washer and a safety pin) when It arrived from the US. I took off the washer and saftey pin, but left the centre pin installed. Can that be omitted? I‘m trying reinstalling the complete engine with exhaust and intake manifolds, from above, the pin is hitting the floor before the engine is able to be leveled.
Thanks,
Martin
Martin Scherz
Late S2 1970 OTS US LHD
Late S2 1970 OTS US LHD
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#7 Re: SII - Engine Levelling when refitting engine
Hi Martin.....when installing engine from above you need the rear end of the car raised up on stands as high as you can helps......Steve
Steve
69 S2 2+2 (just sold) ..Realm C type replica, 1960 xk150fhc
69 S2 2+2 (just sold) ..Realm C type replica, 1960 xk150fhc
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#8 Re: SII - Engine Levelling when refitting engine
You need the pin to hold the rubber buffer C12265 in place. It should clear the wooden piece but if not you can drill a 3/4" hole in it.
The pin itself was only affixed with the split pin in the factory to compress the gearbox supporting spring during assembly.
As Steve says if you're putting the engine in from the top you need more clearance than the wheels alone will give. You could just remove the pin then put it back in when you have the box in.
Alternatively you could try using it as intended by using it to hold the support plate and spring in place,: I've never tried this as we always put engines in from below.
Andrew.
881824, 1E21538. 889457. 1961 4.3l Mk2. 1975 XJS. 1962 MGB
http://www.projectetype.com/index.php/the-blog.html
Adelaide, Australia
881824, 1E21538. 889457. 1961 4.3l Mk2. 1975 XJS. 1962 MGB
http://www.projectetype.com/index.php/the-blog.html
Adelaide, Australia
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#9 Re: SII - Engine Levelling when refitting engine
I don't think this is so : my understanding is that it was installed to prevent excessive up and down movement in the event of rough weather during seaborne shipping
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#10 Re: SII - Engine Levelling when refitting engine
An equally plausible explanation.
Andrew.
881824, 1E21538. 889457. 1961 4.3l Mk2. 1975 XJS. 1962 MGB
http://www.projectetype.com/index.php/the-blog.html
Adelaide, Australia
881824, 1E21538. 889457. 1961 4.3l Mk2. 1975 XJS. 1962 MGB
http://www.projectetype.com/index.php/the-blog.html
Adelaide, Australia
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#11 Re: SII - Engine Levelling when refitting engine
[/quote]
…As Steve says if you're putting the engine in from the top you need more clearance than the wheels alone will give. You could just remove the pin then put it back in when you have the box in.
[/quote]
Andrew thanks. I understand better now. I took the pin out, it cannot be omitted since it is in itself the the threaded part holding the upper spring cup in place.
Today got the engine fitted in from the top, with fully assembled Strombergs, exhaust manifold and the massiv backwards facing alternator bracket. My engine leveller didn’t give enough downward spiel, I just hooeked up the hoist to the front engine hoist bracket. The crank damper had to come off, as did the bonnet safety catch bracket on the firewall. Finally, progress. I levelled the engine as recommended so that the mounts / brackets seem to have the same setting.
…As Steve says if you're putting the engine in from the top you need more clearance than the wheels alone will give. You could just remove the pin then put it back in when you have the box in.
[/quote]
Andrew thanks. I understand better now. I took the pin out, it cannot be omitted since it is in itself the the threaded part holding the upper spring cup in place.
Today got the engine fitted in from the top, with fully assembled Strombergs, exhaust manifold and the massiv backwards facing alternator bracket. My engine leveller didn’t give enough downward spiel, I just hooeked up the hoist to the front engine hoist bracket. The crank damper had to come off, as did the bonnet safety catch bracket on the firewall. Finally, progress. I levelled the engine as recommended so that the mounts / brackets seem to have the same setting.
Martin Scherz
Late S2 1970 OTS US LHD
Late S2 1970 OTS US LHD
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#12 Re: SII - Engine Levelling when refitting engine
Well done! It's always good to get the engine in.
Andrew.
881824, 1E21538. 889457. 1961 4.3l Mk2. 1975 XJS. 1962 MGB
http://www.projectetype.com/index.php/the-blog.html
Adelaide, Australia
881824, 1E21538. 889457. 1961 4.3l Mk2. 1975 XJS. 1962 MGB
http://www.projectetype.com/index.php/the-blog.html
Adelaide, Australia
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#13 Re: SII - Engine Levelling when refitting engine
So the engine mount bolts settled to be even left and right. Still, at a closer look the dome nuts on the cam cover still show a slight maybe 2-3mm height difference. Good enough, I guess. The drive shaft ist bolted back in place with the gearbox still supported with the lift. I‘ll try and level better once the gearbox mont plate and the stabilizer are in place but not fully tightened.
Other than the bolts in the engine mounts, is there a certain front-to-rear spacing to consider?
Other than the bolts in the engine mounts, is there a certain front-to-rear spacing to consider?
Martin Scherz
Late S2 1970 OTS US LHD
Late S2 1970 OTS US LHD
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#14 Re: SII - Engine Levelling when refitting engine
Hi Martin...there isnt a front to rear spaceing as far as im aware but you do want the rear engine staibiliser vertical....it may be the photo but yes some of yoyr cam cover dome nuts do look taller......are the nuts actually all the same hight (size) there is no other reason why some should sit up more than others unless the washers under them were different of the stud dosnt go as far into the thread on some........this thread depth is a known problem on some dome nuts so the nut tightens befor the nut actually presses down on the washer.....steve
Steve
69 S2 2+2 (just sold) ..Realm C type replica, 1960 xk150fhc
69 S2 2+2 (just sold) ..Realm C type replica, 1960 xk150fhc
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#15 Re: SII - Engine Levelling when refitting engine
Hi Steve, I‘m helping Martin with the engine, the cam nuts are all tightened down and they do bottom out on the washers. It’s only the picture.
What Martin means it that the engine seems to be a tiny bit lower on the intake side, as the photo shows the acorn nut is just a little bit below the bulkhead. On the exhaust side the nut is at the same height as the rubber strip. So the engine must lean to the intake side a bit.
Of course we would like it to sit perfectly flush - but do you see that as critical? It would not show up on the stabilizer. We were tired at this point so nothing is final. I‘d like to get it level and front to back should not have much room for error, will find its natural position and we will make sure the stabilizer looks straight looking at it from the side.
What Martin means it that the engine seems to be a tiny bit lower on the intake side, as the photo shows the acorn nut is just a little bit below the bulkhead. On the exhaust side the nut is at the same height as the rubber strip. So the engine must lean to the intake side a bit.
Of course we would like it to sit perfectly flush - but do you see that as critical? It would not show up on the stabilizer. We were tired at this point so nothing is final. I‘d like to get it level and front to back should not have much room for error, will find its natural position and we will make sure the stabilizer looks straight looking at it from the side.
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#16 Re: SII - Engine Levelling when refitting engine
Hi.......Spacers were fitted at the factory under the engine mounts (as required).....they are a jag part shown in the spart parts catalogue........typically used to ensure the carbs are clear of the engine frames........dont fit too many or the bonnet could dent if engine is too high.....Steve
Steve
69 S2 2+2 (just sold) ..Realm C type replica, 1960 xk150fhc
69 S2 2+2 (just sold) ..Realm C type replica, 1960 xk150fhc
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#17 Re: SII - Engine Levelling when refitting engine
The holes in the mount brackets attached to the block are elongated, which allows some scope to raise one side slightly with a corresponding drop on the other side.
Randall Botha
'64 3.8 fhc & '51 Mk 7
'64 3.8 fhc & '51 Mk 7
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#18 Re: SII - Engine Levelling when refitting engine
Steve, the domed nuts are all of identical height and as David said, settling well on the copper washers. As Randall says the elongated bracket holes will allow for the engine to settle evenly. I‘m no longer worried about this. Now, to hook everything back up. Being a late US S2 with a/c and ps, space is really tight up front.
Martin Scherz
Late S2 1970 OTS US LHD
Late S2 1970 OTS US LHD
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#19 Re: SII - Engine Levelling when refitting engine
Thanks for all your input!!
I did replace the mounting blocks (although the old ones looked reasonable), and there were no shims fitted.
I managed to straighten the engine by dropping a strap down from the crane, underneath the sump and attaching it to the mount (on the other side). Lifting the crane rotated the engine immediatetly, by pulling down on the mounting!!
P.S. Somewhere in these replies, someone mentioned the underneath gearbox mounting. Compressing the spring by myself scared me, so I pulled the assembly up with very three long bolts (that I happened to have) and then replaced these with shorter ones when the spring was compressed. Tedious but safer, IMO!!
Cheers, John C
I did replace the mounting blocks (although the old ones looked reasonable), and there were no shims fitted.
I managed to straighten the engine by dropping a strap down from the crane, underneath the sump and attaching it to the mount (on the other side). Lifting the crane rotated the engine immediatetly, by pulling down on the mounting!!
P.S. Somewhere in these replies, someone mentioned the underneath gearbox mounting. Compressing the spring by myself scared me, so I pulled the assembly up with very three long bolts (that I happened to have) and then replaced these with shorter ones when the spring was compressed. Tedious but safer, IMO!!
Cheers, John C
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