Valve spring retainer cap issues
#21 Re: Valve spring retainer cap issues
Hi Roger...the best guy to speek to at SNGB is Peter Stant.....he is i think the head of their tech department very knowlegable and will jump on this problem. .....mention my name and this forum. .....Steve
Steve
69 S2 2+2 (just sold) ..Realm C type replica, 1960 xk150fhc
69 S2 2+2 (just sold) ..Realm C type replica, 1960 xk150fhc
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#22 Re: Valve spring retainer cap issues
Roger, Sorry I do not know which parts are my engine's valve system. Wish I could help.
Frederick
Frederick
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#23 Re: Valve spring retainer cap issues
Thanks Frederick, I think I'm at the bottom of the problem at last!
And thanks Steve, I'll do that.
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#24 Re: Valve spring retainer cap issues
Just for info....iv contacted SNGB technical and refered them to this thread....there does seem to be a difference between collars being offered.....will report back when i asap.....Steve
Steve
69 S2 2+2 (just sold) ..Realm C type replica, 1960 xk150fhc
69 S2 2+2 (just sold) ..Realm C type replica, 1960 xk150fhc
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#25 Re: Valve spring retainer cap issues
Had a very helpful chat with Peter today, who had a pile of retainers on his desk as we spoke! They have realized there is a problem with the collars and are sorting it out quickly. I'm impressed with how seriously they are taking this, and how quickly they are acting, with remedial action already started. Peter's keeping me informed and I'll report on progress.
Thanks for the introduction, Steve!
Thanks for the introduction, Steve!
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#26 Re: Valve spring retainer cap issues
Brief update, as posted on the XK forum - had a chat with Rob Beere about this and he couldn't have been more helpful. The caps are on their way back to him and he will sort things out. I am most impressed with his service, which has been excellent at all times. Both companies have taken this seriously and dealt with my problems very well - I shall have no reservations about using them again in the near future.
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#27 Re: Valve spring retainer cap issues
Just a quick update......the collars were manufactured incorrectly.......SNGB have withdrawn the faulty batch....SNGB actually supply Rob Beere who the original faulty collars were purchased from........Steve
Steve
69 S2 2+2 (just sold) ..Realm C type replica, 1960 xk150fhc
69 S2 2+2 (just sold) ..Realm C type replica, 1960 xk150fhc
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#28 Re: Valve spring retainer cap issues
Quality control contracted out to the customer, by which time it's already too late.
Stuart
If you can't make it work, make it complicated!
'62 FHC - Nearing completion
'69 Daimler 420 Sovereign
'78 Land Rover Series 3 109
If you can't make it work, make it complicated!
'62 FHC - Nearing completion
'69 Daimler 420 Sovereign
'78 Land Rover Series 3 109
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#29 Re: Valve spring retainer cap issues
With the thousands of parts available no quality controle is going to pick up on everthing.....it really is down to the individual to ensure that parts they use are correct for the job......as can be see in the above thread the original poster made detailed checks and found errors......flaged it to the suppliers who have now withdrawn the product.........Steve
Steve
69 S2 2+2 (just sold) ..Realm C type replica, 1960 xk150fhc
69 S2 2+2 (just sold) ..Realm C type replica, 1960 xk150fhc
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#30 Re: Valve spring retainer cap issues
Surely, there's a reasonable expectation for the parts to actually do what they are supposed to do? Fit for purpose and of merchantable quality, and all that?
If someone is supplying these parts then it isn't their customers' responsibility to ensure that they work. The original poster did the work because the supplier or the supplier's supplier had failed to do so.
Using the excuse that they supply and make a lot of parts just doesn't wash. The scale of the business should mean they are better placed to put in the work to ensure the parts are fit for purpose.
I've never worked in a business that didn't ensure its output was up to the necessary standards. Neither would I want to.
Yes, I agree that, as restorers, we'd be a lot poorer without the likes of Barratts and Robey and their obvious dedication but these parts aren't supplied out of the goodness of their hearts.
We'll just have to agree to disagree.
Regards
If someone is supplying these parts then it isn't their customers' responsibility to ensure that they work. The original poster did the work because the supplier or the supplier's supplier had failed to do so.
Using the excuse that they supply and make a lot of parts just doesn't wash. The scale of the business should mean they are better placed to put in the work to ensure the parts are fit for purpose.
I've never worked in a business that didn't ensure its output was up to the necessary standards. Neither would I want to.
Yes, I agree that, as restorers, we'd be a lot poorer without the likes of Barratts and Robey and their obvious dedication but these parts aren't supplied out of the goodness of their hearts.
We'll just have to agree to disagree.
Regards
Stuart
If you can't make it work, make it complicated!
'62 FHC - Nearing completion
'69 Daimler 420 Sovereign
'78 Land Rover Series 3 109
If you can't make it work, make it complicated!
'62 FHC - Nearing completion
'69 Daimler 420 Sovereign
'78 Land Rover Series 3 109
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#31 Re: Valve spring retainer cap issues
Coming late to this but am impressed with Roger’s attitude and focus in the face of a fair amount of convoluted logic.
As his painstaking assembly tests have shown - there is no quick DIY size check that can be applied to samples of this item. Tapers are tricky to measure, especially small internal ones, although a good machine shop should have no trouble making a jig or go/no-go gauge (which is what Roger effectively made by assembling the dud retainers to known good collets and valve). Geometry means that even a slight mistake machining an internal taper over- or under-size can result in a significant change in axial positioning on the shaft or stem. Significant in this case being a few thou.
My D-type peg drive rear hubs were machined with slightly under-size internal tapers analogous to Roger’s undersize collars. Unlike bulk-produced spring collars/retainers, the hubs were machined as one-offs (effectively ‘test’ pieces) from good offside/nearside drawings. Due to the undersize the hub sat a fraction outboard on the solid axle half-shafts. Fortunately the location didn’t have to be as accurate as a spring retainers on valve stems, because rear track isn’t measured in thou. So instead of trying to modify the taper I just requested they machine the recess for the axle nut a little deeper to restore the full thread engagement.
If the spring collar supplier has in the past supplied correct parts but made a faulty batch, they should make SNGB whole. If there was a new supplier working from a dodgy drawing or CNC file, the originator should recompense. Kudos to Roger for careful assembly checking. Remember that ‘NEW’ parts may mean Never Ever Worked. I have had one such collar on the 7-8 heads I’ve done. It was an engine for my own use, so I ground the valve tip a fraction.
As his painstaking assembly tests have shown - there is no quick DIY size check that can be applied to samples of this item. Tapers are tricky to measure, especially small internal ones, although a good machine shop should have no trouble making a jig or go/no-go gauge (which is what Roger effectively made by assembling the dud retainers to known good collets and valve). Geometry means that even a slight mistake machining an internal taper over- or under-size can result in a significant change in axial positioning on the shaft or stem. Significant in this case being a few thou.
My D-type peg drive rear hubs were machined with slightly under-size internal tapers analogous to Roger’s undersize collars. Unlike bulk-produced spring collars/retainers, the hubs were machined as one-offs (effectively ‘test’ pieces) from good offside/nearside drawings. Due to the undersize the hub sat a fraction outboard on the solid axle half-shafts. Fortunately the location didn’t have to be as accurate as a spring retainers on valve stems, because rear track isn’t measured in thou. So instead of trying to modify the taper I just requested they machine the recess for the axle nut a little deeper to restore the full thread engagement.
If the spring collar supplier has in the past supplied correct parts but made a faulty batch, they should make SNGB whole. If there was a new supplier working from a dodgy drawing or CNC file, the originator should recompense. Kudos to Roger for careful assembly checking. Remember that ‘NEW’ parts may mean Never Ever Worked. I have had one such collar on the 7-8 heads I’ve done. It was an engine for my own use, so I ground the valve tip a fraction.
1E75339 UberLynx D-Type; 1R27190 70 FHC; 1E78478; 2001 Vanden Plas
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