Confession about SEARCH, Question about Engine Installation

[rfs1957]

I read that I have been on the Forum for 12 years, 7 months, 10 days

BUT the Search function still drives me mad, and I can only conclude I am definitively a Fu—W-t.

I want to search for +engine+fitting but when I do, all I get is posts with the word “fitting”, and the search header says “Ignored : engine”

I want to see how you fit the engine with the picture frame and front subframe removed, as my car is only partially assembled (following transport back from the UK) and this would potentially be very convenient, as my engine is currently fully built up with carbs and manifolds.

So instead of dropping it out from the bottom, as I’ve done in the past, I’d go in from the front.

I know there’s tons about this on the Forum, but bu—er me if I can find it

[1954Etype]

Why would you want to do it that way Rory? We build as much as we can in the engine bay first. Means we have more room when fitting up the bulkhead, running the wiring loom and hydraulic lines.

[mgcjag]

Hi Rory...in from the front....nothing complicated..side frames on....slide it in...fit picture frame. Suspension etc.
as for searching for it I can't remember seeing a topic on it...its just been mentioned an a alternative on a couple of restoration threads....Steve

[rfs1957]

Knew that would open the floodgates !

In point of fact have stumbled across a post from June 2020, no clue how to find it again mind , to which I had contributed copiously, and where all these questions had been answered.

It’s titled Engine Hoist Leveller or somesuch.

Off for another swim around the goldfish bowl (is there a smiley for this ?)

[mgcjag]

Here you go.. viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13731&p=111866&hili ... st#p111866

[Gfhug]

My attempts at searching for “engine” gets the response that it is too common a word, so I, too, am confused how Steve got the results he did

search.php?keywords=Engine

Geoff

[mgcjag]

Hi Geoff....I can't tell you all the secrets...a bit of lateral thinking helps

[Gfhug]

Steve, my laterals aren’t thinking! And this is where how to search is the question and I have tried looking for one word, then search those results for another word to gradually refine the results to get a really well defined result. That doesn’t always work as I have found and maybe Rory did the same.
Time for OBL to give guidance on how the system is designed to work?

Geoff

[DWW]

[Gfhug]

Advanced searched for “frame” contributed by “rfs1957” found this:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15972&p=131637&hilit=Frame#p131637

Geoff

[mgcjag]

There you go Geoff....lateral thinking...its not difficult

[Gfhug]

Agreed, Steve, but it still doesn’t help when the word we search for is classed as too common, e.g. engine or oil. Say we are trying to find “oil filter”, however I’ve tried the word “oil” is always ignored so I end up with 2800+ results for filter to filter. Just trying to find ways we can search where a common word won’t get ignored because it is an important part of the search and when my laterals are tired

Geoff

[mgcjag]

Hi Geoff.....oil filter is very vague to search for....the actual words are common and as you say used over 2000 times on the forum...what do you actually want to know about an "oil filter"....details in service manual....suppliers websites.....use google...etc.....or if you cant find what you want then put up a post....the forum search isnt inteligent...it only finds the words you search for.....but if your patient and look through the 2000 odd entries your answer will be in there. .....Steve....ps i just searched oil filter......it did not ignore the common word oil...pps if you use Advanced search.....and search oil filter but click on topic title then you get better results 136 entries...on topics about filters rather than every post tnat mentiones oil or filter

[Gfhug]

Hi Steve, maybe my oil filter search was a bit vague and there is the manual to look at, which I do all the time, but a bit like Rory looking for engine when there’s a bit of very useful advice which isn’t in the manual but kindly contributed by the people on here that he or I am trying to find. Topic is starting to drift and hopefully Rory can see the results he was looking for in 10 above.

Cheers all.

Geoff

[mgcjag]

Hi Geoff....no thread drift here......the topic is about useing "Search".....& fitting engine...Steve

[abowie]

I've never tried doing it this way, but it seems you can.

Given that putting the engine in from below is so easy and controlled I'm not sure that I'd want to though.

Bolting the engine frames together can be tricky at the best of times and trying to do it with the weight of the engine on the side frames distorting things might make it very hard indeed. I'm not sure.

Do us a write up if you do it

[rfs1957]

Following on from Andrew's invitation, here's a shot of the action.

No claim to originality or invention here, I've seen people refer to it elsewhere on the Forum.



It requires a good load-leveller, and the position of the anchorages used on the cylinder head are pretty critical as at one point I was quite near the end of the travel in order to get enough slope.

It's not because you're going in from the front that the engine can go in level, far from it.

So worth checking and doing a dry run, if I were to do it again.



I used hooks into plugs #1 and #5 (numbered from the rear) and might have found it easier had I used #2 and #6, which would also have moved the engine-hoist further away from the front frames, which was zero in the closing stages.

(before anyone contests using plug-threads to carry engine-weight, first calculate the tensile effort put on a plug shank when torquing one up, and the combined tension of all the head-studs as a proportion of the engine's weight ..........)



The only place I got caught out, and that I'd do differently next time, was fitting the bell-housing support bracket - my car has a non-standard bell-housing, and so this may not be an issue for others.



I had left this bracket off, as it gets a bit crowded during the approach, but I would have done well to fit it before the engine went fully home, as fitting the 4 bolts afterwards was one of the hardest and most inaccessible things I've ever been confronted with on the E-Type.



Last Hot Tip - sheets of PU-HD plastic cut from the cheeks of 20L plastic cans, and stuck over the edges of the gearbox-tunnel with duct tape, make excellent scratch-free guides for what is always - for me - a pretty fraught procedure, no matter how you do it, unless you've got three helpers.

(Swimming pool chemical plastic cans may not be so readily available in Whitehaven, I know ........ )







Surprisingly, the re-fitting of the picture-frame, subsequent to engine installation, was no different from the previous fitting - not easy, but with or without the load on the engine mountings made no difference to the bolt-hole alignments.

A testament to the rigidity of the shell and of the side-frames ?

I found the best way was to establish which 4-bolt top-corner went together leaving the other side of the picture-frame low, and then used a jack under that low corner - plus an occasional ratchet strap - to coax the rest into place.

[mgcjag]

Hi Rory...have you fitted the prop shaft?..was there anything preventing you just wheeling the engine straight in on a trolly......... out of interest what are the lifting figures for a spark plug thread in the aluminium head...iv used this method to pull a head but not lift a full engine/gearbox...Steve

[rfs1957]

Prop shaft - yes.

Engine on a trolley ? Front frames in place ? We must be at cross purposes.

The gap between the ears of the front frames is just 224mm ; the bell-housing is 360mm wide.

The material is irrelevant as regards the load imposed on the thread. Bolt tables throw up figures of around 1.5 tons on a standard M14 bolt, torqued to 20 ft.lbs.

With a 1.25mm pitch the effort on the thread will be even higher.

[abowie]

Is that a T5 box?

I put my engine back in my 3.8 OTS last week. I have a Medatronics JT5 box in that car, with the slip yoke.

There was no way I could get the yoke to clear the floor of the car with it installed. And with it off, there isn't enough room to leave it attached to the tailshaft and slide it in once the box is in.

So we had to drop the IRS.

Same problem on my initial install. See here https://www.projectetype.com/index.php/ ... t5-in.html for the install in 2013.

So putting it in from above with a JT5 seems to be a good idea.