Starter Button fault. Series One 3.8

[E-by'eck]

Hello all....how many other early EType owners out there have experienced faults with the two spade starter button?? I have had the usual issues with starting and thought after having clocked up 900 miles since finishing my marathon total restoration I'd cracked them all. Then the latest issue arrived. High Torque Starter Solenoid click when pressing the starter button. I went through everything yet again, got 1001 suggestions of cause with "take the engine out" being the only one not mentioned. I was using a cable directly from battery to the 12b terminal on the solenoid for start up.

I finally resorted to purchasing an SNGB replacement, splashing out on the Lucas premium version in a red box rather than the "cheapo" Green Box one. Fitted and hallelujah!! instant success!! Problem Solved.!! Well for two weeks. Now back to ClickClick.
I pulled my old switch apart ( likely from 1962) , cleaned it up and refitted it. Still temperamental but is starting the engine occasionally seemingly when I push the button in from a different angle.

I am going to contact SNGB but how many others have had this problem return after just two weeks from new ? Are there any more durable brands out there?
Regards Graham

[mgcjag]

Think you will find that quite a few have fitted a relay upgrade into he ignition switch circuit....your Lucas starter from SNGB is just a re badged Powerlite starter....Steve

[E-by'eck]

Hi Steve....thanks for the reply. I have fitted the relay upgrade.

[bitsobrits]

I am going to contact SNGB but how many others have had this problem return after just two weeks from new ? Are there any more durable brands out there?
Regards Graham

FWIW I have had a couple of failures with Lucas toggle switches sold by SNGB. Both failed after just a few operations. So I sourced used items on eBay and they have been working fine.

[mgcjag]

You have the relay upgrade.....so what is actually clicking when you press the start button......Steve

[E-by'eck]

Hi Steve....the click is the solenoid, which is mounted on top of a Wasp high torque starter motor. The starter button carries supply from the relay (white cable) through switch providing 12v supply to the Solenoid.(White/Red Cable). As explained, the new Starter button worked perfectly for two weeks and then became unreliable....either started the engine or the solenoid clicked. If I bypassed the switch by disconnecting then touching the WHITE & WHITE/RED cables together (with ignition on) the engine starts. The White/Red Cable has to travel round the engine frames from left to right. and it does result in a small voltage drop to 11.5v.
Graham

[E-by'eck]

Steve thanks for the idea of a used original starter button if I can find one.
Graham

[mgcjag]

Graham....your relay wireing/ upgrade sounds to me wired incorrectly......can you post a diagram of your circuit....or confirm that you've wired it as per the details in the upgrade section....Steve

[E-by'eck]

I'll get a reply for you tomorrow Steve. Thanks for your help.
Graham

[E-by'eck]

Checked my wiring Steve and it is correct. Confirmed that the relay clicks when the ignition key is turned on.The upgrade for a 3.8 is very simple.

Interestingly the car was in a good mood this morning. Turned the ignition key, pressed the starter button and....... engine started . Don't we all love the challenge.
Thanks again Steve.

[tim wood]

Interestingly I had a very similar issue. Wiring as per series 1 with the simple ignition switch. Would normally start ok but on occasion just a solenoid click from the modern starter.

Checked out the battery, renewed the earth strap although nothing apparently amiss.
Led me to believe that it could only be the starter motor as the circuit is so simple and everything else checked out ok.

Removed the starter ( what fun that is) when dismantled and on the bench I could clearly see that the brass connector sections were scuffed and distorted.
New starter seems to have solved the problem.

Edit,
When reassembled on bench test with a battery direct to the starter the fault remained.

[abowie]

If shorting the white wire to the white/red wire from the push button solves your problem than the dash switch is your problem.

The original switches can be disassembled and cleaned and this is what I do. They seem pretty reliable.

[E-by'eck]

Tim, Andrew.....thanks for your ideas. I've been plagued with an array of starting problems over the last 12 months (know it's pretty common with EType ownership). A local Jaguar specialist attempted to resolve a previous issue and sent the starter motor to Wasp. They returned it having checked it over but with only 500 miles of use, I don't think they really found anything wrong.

Since my last entry, I have pulled the original starter button apart and it was in desperate need of a clean- up inside. I replaced the SNGB unit with it and checked for voltage drop across all the joints from battery to the connection into the starter solenoid. 12.6v all the way through. Great!!

Last three days I've been testing the starter button and it turned the engine over every time. No clicks problem solved

Well it wasn't. . I hadn't been actually starting the engine until this morning at 8.15am...we were off to a car show. Tried to start the engine but it wasn't interested.....and guess what ? Yes the click returned. No spark from plugs,only 12.0v into the coil which won't light a test bulb in series. No spark at the points.

Hey Ho!! trying to stay positive and will review voltage drop again, plus tell myself it all adds to my learning curve.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.
Graham

[mgcjag]

If the click is the solonoid part of the starter then its either the starter motor or the main feed to it or earth connection...the main feed and earth are easy to check...make sure the main feed/ eth connections are good...you may test 12v with a meter but if the lug connections arnt good you won't be able to pull the current through them that the starter needs....Steve

[E-by'eck]

Hi Steve
.....the click is the solenoid. Earth connections for starter and solenoid are fine. I asked a friend about my problem as he also uses a high torque starter. He explained they always demand a tip/top voltage to work effectively. The penny dropped.. I had been turning the engine over a lot to try to get it to start up. Consequences for the battery which I then fully charged. Now sufficient voltage and it's good bye clicking with engine turning over again. Still trying to resolve the ignition problem and using a sequence for fault checking supplied by a forum member some time ago. Can't remember who but a big thanks for an excellent checklist. Doing points/ condenser tomorrow. It's always the points.

Graham