Suitable XK Engine stands ?

[44DHR]

Apologies if this has been covered before, but I am about to work on my spare E type engine and seek advice on current suitable commercially available engine stands.

I am a bit concerned at hanging 600lbs/275 kgs ? of a long 6 cylinder engine on a stand and I want it to remain off the floor.

Any recommendations based on experience ?

regards,

Dave

[Mark Gordon]

When I pulled my engine for a rebuild last October, I had the same concern as you. I considered a 750 lb. model, but at Pete Crespin's advice I bought a 2000 lb model. I definitely think that the added beef is worth a little extra money. When you mount the engine, be sure to use bolts that are designed to handle the tensile and shear forces that the engine will deliver. I went to a specialty shop which deals in industrial trade tools and supplies and told them what I was going to use them for and they gave me the proper bolts. I'll check the specs when I get home tonight unless someone else can supply the proper grade before then.

[christopher storey]

I used both the machine mart type stands, the 500 lbs one and the bigger one . The 500 lbs one is a bit marginal but has done 3 rebuilds for me , but has one snag, in that it only has 3 legs, 2 at the side and one in front and therefore can be a little unstable . Some people who use them for 6 cyl engines bolt a wooden prop to the front unsupported end of the engine . It does ,however, have the great advantage of being easily dismantled for storage. The bigger one has 4 legs and is both heavier duty and more stable , BUT it has one great snag : the forward facing legs usually foul the legs of engine cranes and make lifting the engine onto the stand a bit of a nightmare ( in fact I found it impossible with Jaguar engines ). The best suggestion I have come across( although I haven't actually done it ) is to use two of the smaller stands, one at each end of the engine thus providing easy access, stability and load bearing capacity

[Mark Gordon]

Here's the stand that I bought.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-918010/overview/
I had no trouble maneuvering it into position to mount the engine off of the engine crane. I attached the mounting bracket to the rear of the engine and then positioned the stand and slid the mount onto its holder on the crane. Simple, one man job.

[kingzetts]

I used the smaller 500kg Machine Mart stand that Christopher refers to. I made up a tee-piece in square section steel tube which slides into the end of the stand where the third wheel is, and has wheels on its outer ends, to convert to a 4-wheel stand once the engine was on the stand. Worked fine.

[44DHR]

Thanks guys for all the replies and advice.

As Mark said, there is not much point having the best engine stand in the world if the mounting bolts holding your engine are made of cheese. I will make sure I have some high tensile bolts and I will make up a removable support to fit under the front of the engine when it is mounted high up in the air.

It was good to see Chris and John have had experience of the Clarke 500A and 750A stands from Machine Mart and that they can take the weight. albeit with some limitations.

I liked Mark's 2000lb 6 wheeled stand, but it's not really effective for me to order this from the USA. I have today ordered an identical looking 2000lb 6 wheel stand in a rather fetching workshop red colour from a Top rated eBay trader, (over 30600 sales at 99.9% positive feedback), with more than 10 available if others are interested. The two front legs fold up vertically to allow it to be moved and stored on the remaining 4 wheels. The brand is British Air Power, but I expect they are all made in China, but at ?75 plus ?12 carriage, (yes even to the Isle of Wight !!), it's got to be worth a punt.

Regards,

Dave
67 S1 FHC

[christopher storey]

That sounds like a real bargain

[Mark Gordon]

Dave, I promised that I would get the specs for the engine mount bolts when I got home last night, but CRS set in and I forgot. My apologies. The bolts are 3/8"-24x4" Grade 8 with a 2 3/4" unthreaded portion of the shank beneath the head. Your mount, of course, may need shorter or longer bolts.

[44DHR]

As a footnote to the stand I ordered, it arrived the next day - I was staggered how they can do that for ?12 from the Midlands to the Isle of Wight as it weighed 35 kgs !!

The stand material, paint and welding quality was very good, however the Chinese manufacturer had decided to do away with the two wheels on the rear beam and tapped a central location for just one wheel, so my 6 wheel stand now was a 5 wheel stand. In truth, most weight would be on the foremost 4 wheels and the two rear wheels just help when storing the unit with the front legs lifted up vertically. I also had eight 8 mm countersunk bolts required for the middle set of wheels missing.

I phoned up the supplier who apologized as they had bought the stands in from the supplier in good faith and not realised the change in specification as they are sealed in cartons and banded up due to the weight. I could have been fobbed off by a bad supplier as I could not realistically send the item back, but they not only sent me a further wheel, (as I said I was quite happy to drill and tap the eight 8mm rear wheel mounting threads on the rear beam), but they also sent me a complete set of fixings and mountings including the 4 large locking pins. All by next day carrier at their expense. Excellent service for what was a great value item.

I now see on eBay they have put up the price to ?79 and correctly changed their advert to state it is a 2000lb stand, but now 5 wheeled. I am replacing the 12mm stand mounting bolts with UK sourced 8.8 High Tensile bolts, together with Mark's recommended 3/8 UNF bolts for a few more pounds, but still a good piece of kit for the money.

regards,

Dave

[norman m. macleod]

Hi All,
Interesting subject...coincidentally I have just completed the construction of my own engine stand set-up, and am inclined to put down a few words, mainly words of caution. Firstly, be aware that, despite their load rating, many stands are generally intended for use with much shorter block V8's and V6's, and of consequence do not have the massive moment generated by the very long cast iron lump of the XK, when cantilevered. Secondly, be well aware that the bolts used to attach the block to the stand are far stronger than the threads in the cast iron block itself. These are the weakest point in the connection, and are weaker than the rolled threads of a cheap High Street Grade 2 bolt. It may then be quite academic to go for Grade 5 or even 8 high-tensile bolts, as the cast section will fail first, and may even take a chunk of your bell-housing flange with it.........For those brave (or foolhardy...) enough to actually wheel the thing around whilst the block is in place, bear in mind that the slightest bump or jolt will multiply the dynamic loading on the connections by a huge margin......with possibly disastrous results........
I have difficulty with the suggestion that the unsupported end can be assisted with some sort of prop, as it has to be removed to rotate the engine, so back to square one.......
Safety was my prime consideration when approaching this issue, and my subsequent solution.
I purchased 2 identical engine stands, one for each end of the block. These are made by SCA in the PRC, and are quite well made, rated at 560kg each. I am unsure as to whether these are available in the UK, but retail for about A$189:00 each here in Oz. I then fabricated 2 load-bearing plates from 10mm Duralumin, and bolted these to each end of the block, utilizing every available tapped hole (8 at the bell-housing end, 12 at the front....) Plates were sized to sit slightly below the top and bottom machined faces, obviously, to enable fitting of the head and the sump. With the two stands facing each other, the splayed forward-facing legs were cut to achieve the appropriate distance between. I also cut a radiused arc in the rear plate to enable fitting of the rear crank seal....
4 x 1/2" grade 8 bolts were then fitted through the "spiders" in the stands at each end, and that was it, plus the addition of a "tie" plate connecting the cut legs. This latter was actually not necessary, as the whole set-up was rigid enough to be wheeled around with ease without it.....Make a convenient place to sit engine parts whilst working, though ..!
I have little doubt that some readers may see this as a bit OTT (Over the Top...), but it is intrinsically 100% safe, no massive cantilever forces, only vertical ones. Total cost about A$600, (say 390 quid in UK money)...But, total peace of mind.......
I have some photographs of the set-up, should anyone be interested, but regrettably am a bit lacking in PC/IT skills, so cannot attach those. (I did try the photobucket thingo a couple of times, as recommended by David, but ran onto a reef or two along the way.....) If some kind soul would take them by e-mail from me, they could be re-posted onto the Forum, I suppose, should there be any interest.......
Kind regards to All,
Norman.

[norman m. macleod]

Hi all again,
further to my initial post on this subject, have finally managed to include a pic, which may be of interest to some readers. As can be seen from my previous post, the intent is not to recommend any particular stand, but to highlight the danger of hanging an XK engine from one end....
Best regards,
Norman

[PeterCrespin]

Looks like a gorgeous working environment Norman - superb facilities and entirely in keeping that you would go to the trouble of making a double-ended stand.

If I can offer one tiny bit of advice, it would be (and don't quote me on this) that the engines usually go a bit better with a cylinder head between the block and the dome nuts/lifting brackets :-)

Yours admiringly

Pete

[norman m. macleod]

Point taken, Peter, could this explain the very low readings on compression............? Dammit, now where did I put that head............
Thanks for the comment on the workshop facility, we actually built it onto the house specifically for the E-Type project. By the time we had installed the reverse cycle airconditioning, the bar-fridge, the TV/stereo, and the heavy-duty carpet, Herself (The Minister for Home Affairs...) had the mutters. Obviously no idea of priorities whatsoever.........
Best regards,
Norman

[44DHR]

As the originator of this thread and seeing Norman's solution - all I can say is full marks !!!

I did mount my engine on my new 6 wheel 2000lb rated stand - which I am very pleased with for the price - but there was no way I was going to leave a few thousand ?s worth of long engine and several hundred pounds of weight hanging on 4 bolts on my engine stand for any longer than needed.

I carefully lowered the engine with it's high tensile bolted stand mounting shaft into the stand housing, but on releasing the engine weight on the crane, the combined movement in the tolerances in the stand and it's folding legs, with such a long 6 cylinder engine, I decided not to leave it mounted for any longer than required to do the sump and oil pipe work.

Norman's solution is the only way to safely work on, move around and leave a 6 cylinder Jag engine mounted long term in a stand without any concerns.

regards,

Dave
S1 FHC 4.2

[andrewh]

I am pleased I have read this post. I do have a Machine Mart stand which I used with great effect to rebuild my Range Rover V8 but of course this is all alloy and much lighter. Fortunately my father bought an engine frame many years ago which mounts engine via clamp bars top and bottom. Basically it is a cradle which the engine sits in and you lay the fixings straps over the top and bottom and fix to the crankcase and front end. I will use this as I have always felt nervous to be frank about hanging an engine of this weight off the crankcase castings. I will try to photograph it when I have it fixed in.

Whilst on can anyone offer any advice on properly clearing the water jacket out?

[christopher storey]

The silting up tends to occur mostly at the rear of the block. Thus removal of the rear core plug ( 3.8 ) or rear bolted on plate ( 4.2 ) as well as the side core plugs is essential. It is then possible usually to get a palette knife or similar between the rearmost side core plugs and the rear aperture and chisel out a large amount of gunge . Some of it, however, can be very hard and calcified and for this I used a small cheap chisel hit with the flat of the hand to chip the residue off the surfaces. I found that it was the curve of the cylinders which tended most to be affected by this, presumably because these are the hottest surfaces . I also used brushed on phosphoric acid at about 10% dilution to try and soften some of the residue . It is boring work but will fill in a dull afternoon for you quite satisfactorily !