1st gear very very hard to engage on Moss box (in a 140 OTS)

pmansson · Post by **pmansson** » Sun May 15, 2011 4:10 pm

I thought that I would call on the expertize on this board, even though the problem is with one of my XKs.

Reverse is no problem to engage, but 1st gear will go in normally 1 out of 10 times, and 7 out of 10 times when I push it very very hard, which does not feel very good...

Car is newly rebuilt. Box problem or clutch issue....?
Thanks,
Peder

Post by **Heuer** » Sun May 15, 2011 4:27 pm

Peder

I can only go on the experience of those who have driven them but a new Moss box, as designed, is regarded as very good. On the examples I have driven 1st has been easy to engage from standstill but overall the remaining changes need to be measured. Lack of synchro on first gear means a double de-clutch is a wise move regardless of whether you are moving or not. In fact to be 'graunch' free selecting reverse on my BW T5 box means either double de-clutching or selecting 5th beforehand. If it was a clutch problem it would affect the other gears. Try selecting 2nd before engaging first gear and let us know how you get on.

pmansson · Post by **pmansson** » Sun May 15, 2011 7:36 pm

Sorry, forgot to state that, but yes, I have tried that as well.

pmansson · Post by **pmansson** » Sun May 15, 2011 7:43 pm

I have this sitting in storage, as that car now has the Watson box. It was fine before, and I thought I might use in the 140, (which lacking the OD allows for a gearbox change without taking the engine out).
Question is which Moss box is it? (cannot go and check now).
The 140 has a JL CR box.

Dave K · Post by **Dave K** » Mon May 16, 2011 8:21 am

Have you tried Redline MTL in your Moss box? I used this in mine along with some Teflon gearbox additive and it worked very well.
Redline will do wonders for many types of older gearbox.

Dave

pmansson · Post by **pmansson** » Mon May 16, 2011 8:27 am

I use 100% MTL in my Getrag boxes, but didn?t think the Moss box liked it. Worth a try, as well as seeing if the new clutch plates needs an adjustment after the first 300 miles, i.e. now

Does the Jaguar all synchro box like 100% Redline as well?
Best,
Peder

Ian Howe · Post by **Ian Howe** » Sun May 22, 2011 7:03 am

Hi Peter

I have the same problem (62 FHC). My box will only go into first (apart from when I am at a slow crawl) after I preselect second - then straight in but you can feel a slight notch. The gearbox also 'pops' out of second occasionally when coasting.

I am no expert by the way - only what I have read/researched.

I understand the problem is usually caused by the ball/plunger that stops the first gear travelling too far rearwards along the main shaft - what happens is that the internal teeth of the first speed wheel are deformed by the ball/plunger riding against it. Also the speed wheel will not not then move fully forward into second gear - hence it popping out. Important to mention a common DIY mod to the gearbox is a spacer on the selector to stop the first gear moving along the selector too far if the ball/plunger has worn - when this happens, the gearbox gets stuck in first.

I can live with my box at the moment - but it will have to come out. Not sure if there is anything that can be done in situ?

Ian Howe
62 RHD FHC
61 LHD OTS

christopher storey · Post by **christopher storey** » Sun May 22, 2011 7:35 am

Ian : you should be able to remove the gearbox top without any real difficulty, which would enable you to do the mod on the selector assembly. All that has to come out are the seats and centre console

Are you the Ian Howe who was in Liverpool?

Ian Howe · Post by **Ian Howe** » Sun May 22, 2011 10:42 am

Hi Chris

No - down in Essex.

Sorry did not make my post clear - difficult when you are writing about something you know little about!!!!! However ......

The gearbox had the mod done on it when I got the car - so the travel of first gear going forward is now limited by the DIY spacer. I think what happens over time is when the first gear starts going too far forward (gradually going further as the stop rivet is worn down), one of the internal teeth at the rear of the first gear gets distorted by the ball and plunger. With this distorted tooth/teeth it makes getting into second a little more difficult - with a 'click' - and in the case of my car the second gear does not engage fully - so it occassionally 'pops out' on overrun. Another symptom of this problem is, I believe, that on hard deceleration you can sometimes get a 'clicking' from the gearbox because the gear wheel are not in the correct position?

My exam question for those who are experts - is can I get to the distorted teeth/tooth just by taking the top of the box and carefully cleaning up the distortion?

Ian

If I have not got that right - please correct me as I am really not an expert on the Moss box.

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1st gear very very hard to engage on Moss box (in a 140 OTS)

#1 1st gear very very hard to engage on Moss box (in a 140 OTS)

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#3 2nd gear before

#4 E S1 Moss box

#5

#6 Redline MTL

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