The 'E' Type Forum

Hi,

Well the gloss has worn off (a little) already, with the first fault with the car! I haven?t even had time to go and get the suspension set up when the handbrake stopped working. Investigation reveals that one of the pads has disintegrated. Now, I had new pads supplied with the car, but one of these broke away from its? backing on installation, so I bought a new set ? around 3-4 years ago I guess and I think they came from a reputable dealer, rather than ebay or similar, but obviously, they were still useless. I have to drop the rear suspension (again) to fix it ? bugger!

So my question is, has anyone else had problems with the handbrake pads (Early Series III, just in case that makes a difference) and also, has anyone changed their pads and had no problems ? more importantly, if so, where did you buy them?

Cost is not an issue ? I don?t want to drop the suspension again in future because the pads fail again, so the only consideration is reliability.

Hopefully someone can help?..

Regards,

Simon

Simon - I can offer you no comfort : on the most recent set of pads I bought , one pad fell off the backing before I'd even installed it ! Inspect them very carefully before putting them in

[quote="vee12eman" I have to drop the rear suspension (again) to fix it ? bugger!

Simon[/quote]

Not tried it on a LWB E-type but you don't need to drop the IRS to do that job on a Series XJ. If you can get the pins out that hold the handbrake halves to the caliper body you can rotate the handbrake bits around the disc towards the back and pull them out of the cage (no need to remove the tie plate either in that case. From memory, the pins just about fouled the rear bulkhead on my Series 2 XJ but by juggling the IRS with a jack I could get enough movement in the rubber cage mounts to pull the pins out all the way.

Probably worth a try before you go the whole hog and drop the cage. You won't lose anything.

Hi guys,

Thanks for the responses.

Chris, can you remember where your pads came from, as I am trying to ensure I buy good ones next time!

Pete, thanks for the tip, I had in fact contemplated this method and it is good to hear that it should work. However, I think I'm still going to remove the IRS as I have recently realised that the brake pipes I made are in fact copper rather than cupro-nickel (Cunifer), so I was contemplating the drop anyway and have bought the pipe in anticipation. I am also considering designing an extractor for the fwd radius arm bushes. Because the IRS has been off recently, it should come off ok and I can drop and refit it in about 3 hours (not allowing for the exhuast, which adds about half an hour. I'll do it over Christmas when it should be nice and warm outside - how's the snow over there?

Thanks again,

Regards,

Mine were from SNGB and as far as I know were AP or AE and not some dubious manufacturer. As usual with SNGB, whose service is first class, they were changed without question, and fortunately I had bought two sets so it did not hold me up

I have found Greenstuff pads to be very good - they have an abrasive surface which 'conditions' your discs during the first few applications. I also find them to more progressive than AP pads.

Heuer wrote:I have found Greenstuff pads to be very good - they have an abrasive surface which 'conditions' your discs during the first few applications. I also find them to more progressive than AP pads.

David - EBC make Greenstuff IRS handbrake pads???

Simon - what sort of pressure do you think is going to constitute a hazard when using copper brake pipes???

Yes, recent R&R of an assembly at least obviates the usual rusted fasteners etc. if for any reason you do need to repeat the exercise. I had the deep joy of doing my handbrake calipers three times on that Daimler before the MOT tester was happy with the equivalence of effort, despite it holding the car fine from the outset. The take-home lesson from that unhappy week was to insist on a Tapley brake meter for all my LSD Jags so that only overall braking effort can be tested, not individual wheels.

Pete

Hi David, Chris, Pete, thanks again for the posts.

Re: brake pipes, it's not the pressure that is the problem, or at least not alone. The problem is that they have a tendency to work harden and will become brittle. This is a fairly well known issue and I had some comments made about copper pipes in the UK at MOT time when rebuilding Triumphs. in those days I normally used kits from Automec, who were using Cunifer (Kunifer?) for the pipes. For the E-type, I already had a lot of new brass unions and some pipe lying around unused from a previous project, so I bought some more pipe from the local Motor Factors and made my own - very satisfying until I discovered the work hardening factor. The issue was really raised when I had to have an Engineers report (prior to Roadworthy Inspection) and he nearly failed it, until I swore blind that they were Cupro-Nickel (which I actually believed at the time) and supplied evidence of the standards to which it was made. There are issues over here with far fewer Roadworthy Inspections (which only happen when selling a car, re-registering one which has a lapsed rego or of course, importing one), but despite this, the actual enginering standards for imported cars (which don't have the compliance plate all Aussie bought cars get issued on first Rego when new), are actually very strict.

Later, on checking the packaging of my pipe, I found that it was copper and met a British Standard - which turned out to be a superseded standard for copper pipes in Heat exchangers. I used the same roll on another car previously with no problem, but you never know... I supplied the evidence of the British Standard to the engineer, hoping he would accept and later He was fine about it, but then in passing mentioned that he hadn't actually checked it out - which is possibly a good job seeing as it was actually out of date and really for another purpose - I guess he just thought that it has a British Standard - it should be OK! I also supplied him evidence that Volvo used Kunifer pipes for years and he seemed happy.Anyway, I got my certificate and decided to chage them in future.

Now I guess that if I support the pipes well, they won't move about and work harden too much, but other research indicates that the pipes swell imperceptibly each time the brakes are applied and thus continue to work harden and there have been failures, normally associated with the bends, where early work hardening occured when forming the pipes, so in future it's Cupro-Nickel all the way, in the same way that I now won't use Silicone fluid, even though I used it for some time with no problems in the past - I don't want to take risks with brake systems and my research indicates it is unsuitable - no matter what the article in the recent magazine says! Thankfully I have never had an issue with either, but then if I ever do, maybe I won't be around to post my experiences?!

On another note, EBC do make Greenstuff pads and do make E-type handbrake pads - SNG sell them. I have now bought a set of Mintex pads however - we shall see what happens . I will give them a bit of testing before fitting them this time and report any problems. Hopefully it will be third time lucky!

Regards,

Peter

See above regarding EBC Greenstuff h/b pads, although I use them all round.. As for MOT testing the latest rigs allow for LSD's. When I took my car in September I heeded Christopher's advice and insisted on a Tapley meter but the MOT inspector gently explained they knew all about the problem thus program their brake tester accordingly The rollers worked as one for the rear brake test and they were kind enough to let me watch, despite my faux par. Miraculously the car passed!

Copper brake pipes are illegal in all jurisdictions in Aust and are an automatic roadworthy fail.

Hi Garry,

Yes, that is my understanding and I realise I was lucky to get away with it - this is the reason I am changing the pipes and by the end of Christmas it should all be done. In a way, the handbrake pads are actually a blessing in disguise since I was reluctant to start the work required to change the pipes, but now have the perfect excuse to do so and will end up with a safer, more car.

Regards

My rear axle stopped 'drippin' so took in to check it out incase had run dry and all was fine. Once in air noticed one of my h/brake pads had come off and said it needed re-sticking. I hadn't noticed any difference but always leave in gear anyway.

That said one way back I did note when off the handbrake sits very tight against the trim under it, I wonder if this doesn't allow it to fully dis-engage and then if set to tight pulling off in motion?

That said the first salt spreaders were out Sunday night in Watford so she's all parked up now for a few months!! Rear end is next job so that will all be sorted before MOT....... :)

vee12eman wrote:Hi Garry,

Yes, that is my understanding and I realise I was lucky to get away with it - this is the reason I am changing the pipes and by the end of Christmas it should all be done.

Regards

I would go to your local brake place and just get the steel pipe. It is cheap, easy to work and in Aust you really do not get the rust issues that you would have got in the UK.

Garry