The 'E' Type Forum

I was still investigating an earlier idle speed problem (still not resolved) and I noticed none of the nults bolting the carbs to the manifold were very tight. To do the lower ones up meant taking off the air inlet box and air filter box for access under the carbs.

In the process I noticed that there was water in the cylinder head breather pipe and that there was bright orange coloured water stains in the air inlet box coming from the pipe. Before recently refurbishing all this area the car did not have an engine breather pipe fitted, so I put a new one on - therefore I wouldn't have seen this previously.

I don't understand where this orangey water is coming from. There is no evidence of water in the oil sump or in the camshaft covers.

Separately, or maybe related, I think the water pump is leaking. The evidence I have for this is a line of dirty water across the underside of the bonnet where it is over the pump/alternator belt. At rest there is no dripping of water from the pump and there is no significant loss of coolant in the header tank.

The car has had a new radiator and header tank recently and the coolant looks fine. Also the water temp runs at about 90 degrees when warmed up. I recently put a can of Barrs Leaks in the coolant but it hasn't stopped the leak.

Any clues on the orange water in the breather pipe and if the water pump needs replacing and whether the two issues may be related?

Many thanks in advance

Not an easy one , Steve. The water stains from the breather may just be the result of condensation . If there were any significant mixing of water and oil I would expect the sump oil to shows signs of it, usually some faint milkiness . Since there is no sign of that, and no apparent loss of coolant, on balance I would be reasonably confident there was nothing seriously amiss. As far as the water pump is concerned , again the fact that you are not losing coolant militates against there being anything seriously wrong with the pump . You say there is a leak, ( presumably on the evidence of the line of water ) but this is hard to reconcile with no loss of coolant.

There is , however, one insidious fault which is rare but which just might ( and I stress just) explain all your symptoms, and that is that there is a tendency for the rear wall of the front cover - that part which lies immediately behind the water pump impeller - to become thin and porous, which allows very small quantities of coolant to escape into the cam chain cavity near where the breather is . To cure this is a major job, requiring head off and front cover etc off so as to weld the back of the cover , and thus I would not even consider doing it unless there was tangible proof in the shape of measurable and otherwise unexplained water loss

Christopher,

thanks for the response. Certainly one to ponder on.

Regarding the water pump I have read elsewhere that a bit of minor leakage can be quite OK. If so what are the symptoms of a major water pump failure?
The coolant I am getting on the bonnet is mixed with a bit of oil from around the front of the engine and looks pretty 'normal'.

Regarding the breather, would it be a good idea to to take off the breather assembly and look for clues in there?
The intriguing thing is how bright orange the water colour is.

Presumably in your worse case scenario there would be water getting all over the timing chain workings and could some be trapped inside the cover?

Steve : the usual signs of pump failure are a. obvious signs of water weeping past the gland seal where the shaft passes through the front of the pump body . I have to say, your line of water , consistent with water being flung off the periphery of the rotating pulley, is consistent with this, but the lack of measurable water loss is not . Sometimes, you can see a fine mist being flung off the pulley with the engine running

b.often, if the bearing is failing, you will be able to wobble the pulley slightly up and down/side to side

c.also, you can often hear a clear whine from the pump bearing area

I would certainly take off the breather dome and have a look - it is only a 5 minute job

If the cover was porous then until a real hole develops, there will only be minute quantities of water seeping through - as I say, until there were measurable quantities of coolant loss not explained through other causes ( or if on inspection, as you say, the chain area was clearly contaminated) I would not worry too much about this

Took off the breather dome today and all looked OK, just a minor bit of brownish colour on the chain adjuster plate. No evidence of water ingress.

This means the orange colour water is being produced in the brand new breather pipe. Maybe it is a reaction between the inside of the chromed pipe and the gases going up the pipe.

If your pipe is newly-chromed it can have all sorts of residues in it and the last rinse would have been water. Consequently, there's every chance it is rust that is being 'flushed out' by your crankcase fumes which are largely water of course. I'd whip the pipe off and flush it with some rust neutraliser and then maybe seal on top of that when it's dry by sloshing some anti-rust paint inside.

Serves you right for trying to 'bling up' the old girl :-)