Battery overcharging S1

philwesty21 · Post by **philwesty21** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:47 am

Hi - ive recently completed the rebuild of my '65 4.2 FHC. Uk spec and I seem to gotten a cooking battery. Ive replaced the 4TR regulator with a new Barratt one as the output was running at nearly 16V! The problem is the new one gives more or less the same reading. Do I have 2 duff regulators?
im using the same 11AC alternator it's always had but I have had it apart to clean the slip rings and check over and seems ok. Could I have done something to it in the process that would lead it to overcharge?
thanks for any insights!

Mikael B · Post by **Mikael B** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:13 pm

Hi, I had the same problem with my OTS-66 after rebuilt. Found a solution by adjusting the 4TR regulator. On the backside there is a adjustment screw hidden under a sealant plugg. I guess the 11AC alternator in combination with newer batteries needs to be adjusted, could maybe be something with newer battery internal resistance. Mine is adjusted almost to the minimum.
Just remove the attachment screws and the sealant plugg on the backside and adjust with a voltmeter attached until you have a normal charging voltage like 13.8 to 14 Volts.
Regards Mikael

Stuart Exelby · Post by **Stuart Exelby** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:39 am

Hi - I had a similar issue with the regulators you quoted - initially showing the correct voltage - but within less than 100 miles, the regulator burnt out. Returned to the supplier who replaced it and the same happened. Didn't get round to adjusting the regulator as they were initially showing the correct voltage - but they didn't last. I have switched to a Manners one - and so far have had no problems - but haven't stopped holding my breath yet as I've probably only done about 120 miles since the Manners one was installed.

I don't know if it's relevant, but when I complained to SNG about the second one, they said that they didn't have any more on the shelf and it would be over a month before they had any in - I wondered if they had known issues with their supply / supplier and were seeking alternatives - but that's a guess......

Post by **Heuer** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:02 am

My 4TR failed and the superb SBS40 battery had swelled massively but thankfully did not burst. So new regulator and new battery required.

You have two points of failure with the stock setup - 4TR and the alternator diode pack (which I have also had fail). Fitting the Nippondenso alternator with integrated regulator is the best way forward, certainly if you are contemplating taking your car on any long journeys. viewtopic.php?t=6668

philwesty21 · Post by **philwesty21** » Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:25 am

Thanks for the replies. I now have 2 regulators of dubious quality by the sound of it. Sadly there appears to be no adjuster on either unit. Im tempted to dismantle the older one, which is at least a proper Lucas one and see if theres somethign inside as the back has nothing but a blind rivet to spoil its smoothness. I will replace the SNG unit with a Manners one to see if that improves matters. Battery is a bog standard lead acid job from the motor factors but does have factory outputs etc

If the diode pack is knackered in some way i'd expect it too produce less voltage rather than more wouldn't I? Thanks for the info on modern option, i will keep that for when I lose the will to live on the standard set up.. which may not take long..

Post by **Heuer** » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:23 am

Yes, if (when!) the diode pack fails you will get no charge. Make sure you have the alternator shield in place because the 1960's era diodes do not like heat. Given the 4TR costs ?30 and you can buy a brand new Nippondenso off eBay for ?35 I am not sure it makes sense to persevere! Angus insists on fitting the Nippondenso to all his restorations now based on his experiences.

Mikael B · Post by **Mikael B** » Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:27 pm

In the knowledge database you will find all information related to repair and test 11AC and 4TR. S2 Service Manual, Section 16 Electrical and instruments.
If you still after reading that insist on the Nippondenso solution I'll be more than happy to buy your 11AC alternator and 4TR for ?35. Who knows maybe I would need spares soon :D

Post by **mgcjag** » Fri Jul 24, 2015 2:41 pm

Hi Phil....there is also info in the knowledge base but here is the link....it details 11ac for e type and gives details how to convert and do away with the 4TR....lets you keep the original but upgrade it.... http://www.coolcatcorp.com/faqs/Lucasalternators.html

chrisvine · Post by **chrisvine** » Fri Jul 24, 2015 3:37 pm

Steve,

I've made the 11ac modification and it only does away with the 3AW unit and the alternator relay. You still need the 4TR regulator to avoid run away with the output voltage produced by the alternator.

My hunch is it's the regulator that's either faulty or not calibrated correctly, as it's regulating it of sorts - only at too high a voltage. I though it could be adjusted but perhaps the replacement units are sealed.

Chris

Post by **mgcjag** » Fri Jul 24, 2015 7:00 pm

Hi Chris....yes my mistake....for some reason thought it did away with the 4TR.....good job someone,s on the ball....Thanks...Steve

philwesty21 · Post by **philwesty21** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:29 am

Hi - an update.
Have now tried 3 4TRs for 3 different sources and there's no difference between them - all over charge the battery to 15-16v.
Could it be the battery? Its the same spec as original. Maybe its duff?
I do hate these annoying little ongoing problems.. !

christopher storey · Post by **christopher storey** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:11 am

Phil : since it's a lead acid battery you can tell whether it's being over-voltaged by the state of electrolyte. If this boils away and the battery gets hot , you have a definite overcharge. If, however, the electrolyte level does not drop significantly, then it is more likely that your voltmeter (s) is inaccurate . What open circuit voltage is shown on the battery a few minutes after the engine is stopped ? Also, is your underbonnet temperature particularly hot e.g. with an unshielded fabricated manifold ?

philwesty21 · Post by **philwesty21** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:52 am

Hi Christopher - I asked a man with a proper voltmeter to check it too and he agreed with my cheapo Tesco unit's reading.. The battery definately fizzes and weeps through the breathers on the top.
i dont have a shield on the manifold. its didnt have one when i bought the car, not that that means anything..
I'll check the voltage across the battery after my next run and report back. :)

David Oslo · Post by **David Oslo** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:09 am

My first thought is that it can't be the battery. Can't imagine how a difference in the battery (including any errors in the plates, internal short circuits etc) would effect the voltage output of the alternator. Current draw, yes, but not voltage.

Anyhow, what about disconnecting the onboard battery, and hook up the +/- cables to another battery (say from your day to day car). Use jump leads if you want to keep it simple. Then start the E-type and redo your voltage measurements. E.g. change one part of the equation / experiment and see if you get a step change.

philwesty21 · Post by **philwesty21** » Wed Aug 12, 2015 11:40 am

Hi all - just been on a 10 mile run. before heading off I have 12.3v at the battery and on return its recording 13v.
I have the standard manifolds, but no sheile for the alternator - could that be it?

christopher storey · Post by **christopher storey** » Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:16 pm

Neither of my cars have ever had the alternator shields and it has never created this problem. If you battery only had 12.3 volts open circuit before you started it, then the battery is by no means in a full state of charge which at summer temperatures with a good condition battery should produce at least 13.2 volts and probably a little higher . This would account for high alternator output until a full charged state is reached . If your car and more particularly your battery has not seen much use recently, I should persevere until you are satisifed that the alt output is 15v or more even when fully charged . If once at full charge the output is say in the range 14 to 14.5 volts then I would regards that as nromal

David Oslo · Post by **David Oslo** » Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:55 pm

I suggest to put battery on a trickle charge / maintenance charger for a good few days. If voltage (with a load on, e.g. headlights on engine off) does not improve then I would consider a new battery.

philwesty21 · Post by **philwesty21** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:06 pm

Thanks for all your help folks. Appreciated. I'll stick it on charge whilst its raining out for 24 hrs and see what that gives.

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Battery overcharging S1

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