Additives

[HarryW]

Have noticed occasional additives recommended - like Wetter Water, Bars Leaks etc. Has anyone experience of other engine/gearbox/diff/radiator additives that they would recommend - or definitely not recommend :?

[andyp]

Harry

I think there is always a place for Wetter Water (it has one keen advocate here in Heur) but if everything is in good condition and the oil is fresh there shouldn't really be any need for other additives.

However, in the real world I have been using Molyslip in engines and gearboxes for about 30 years and I have little doubt that it really does reduce friction. In worn components this can be very useful in delaying the inevitable rebuild. I've had reports of ranges extended by 20% in marine engines I've added it too. Mind you these are not always in the best condition so there is probably more room for improvement than in your average car. It's amazing what will continue to run if you never take it above 1200rpm!

Andy

[Moeregaard]

Water Wetter is wonderful stuff. Here in the States the Healey guys swear by it. Bear in mind that it is not a substitute for other cooling system deficiencies. Bars Leaks is great for sealing up that core plug on the engine's rear (don't ask why I know this!). It does not, contrary to urban legend, plug up cooling systems. This is the stuff that looks like mouse turds suspended in brown liquid. Apparently, the "turds" just sit at the bottom of the cooling system until needed. I'm not sure how this works, but it must be some sort of artificial intelligence.

There are additives recommended for limited-slip differentials, but many of the available gear lubes (Castrol) have these included in their chemistry.

At one time I used a gearbox additive available over here called Slick 50. At the time I had a 1988 Toyota pickup with a crotchety second gear and this seemed to improve the shifiting--important when you've only got 103 BHP at the clutch. Figuring that this stuff must do well in other areas, I added it to my '65 FHC's gearbox and noticed some improvement there as well. I do recall the instructions recommending that it not be used in a LS differential. Today, Redline lubricants seem to be the latest and greatest, and I've heard good things when they're added to a Moss box, but I've yet to try them in the all-syncro unit.

I can't imagine any marine engine gaining 20% range just through a lubricant change. Marine engines typically run at high manifold pressures most of the time, and are driving what is best described as a very inefficient torque converter, i.e., screw, to push a mass through water. Too many factors are already working against them for a lubricant to have this effect. I would love to be the guy who comes up with such a lubricant, however...

[andyp]

Moe

You should see some of the marine engines I've had the pleasure of looking at. It's not uncommon for the oil to be decades old. Yes decades.

You don't need any brains to buy a motor yacht, just a fat wallet.

Andy

[Heuer]

Jaguar used to put two bottles of Barrs Leaks into every E-Type on the production line and it was part of the maintenance schedule to replenish it when required. They also added an LSD additive to the differential, something which should be done after each oil change, even today. I have indeed found Water Wetter to work, lowering engine temperature by 5c or more which can give you the edge if you are ever stuck in traffic. If you are in any doubt do a Google search on it.

[Moeregaard]

Andy, "BOAT" is nothing more than an acronym meaning "Break Out Another Thousand." What's funny is that I was able to buy my first E-Type in 1982 because the owner wanted a boat. His wife gave him a choice: E-Type or boat. He eventually exercised the third option and got rid of the wife, but by then I had his E-Type.

David's point regarding Water Wetter is a good one. It's some of the best and cheapest insurance available--much cheaper that calling for a tow and replacing a head gasket.

[andyp]

Tell me about it!!

[Moeregaard]

You're not smiling, so I suspect this photo represents the beginning of something really expensive--or the end of something really expensive and the bills are coming due!

[andyp]

End of a very tiring summer. I rebuilt rather a lot of the hull single handed. Still it saved an old boat that had served throughout the war and deserved better than to be left to fall into decay.

Very definately a decision of the heart not the head.

[Moeregaard]

A beautiful job! Where's the location?

[andyp]

Thanks Moe. She's moored at Henley on Thames in the photo.

Andy

[Heuer]

Andy

What a fantastic old boat. Do you still have her?

[andyp]

I sold her a couple of years ago as I was up to 3 or 4 boats. She is safe now for another half century at least so it was time to move on and save another.

Andy

[HarryW]

From E boats to E types again Anyone with any experience (or is that 'measurable' experience?) with products from STP, Wynn's, Extralube, Molyslip etc? Is there any objective evidence - rather than ad blurbs - that these are of any use? :?

[Moeregaard]

STP--"Engine Rebuild in a Can"--is often effective in controlling oil consumption in high-mileage engines, when you're trying to delay the inevitable. It's basically a thickener with some sort of magic slip-easy in it. If you dismantle an engine that has been running this stuff, all the parts will have a slippery feel that's not unlike the surface of a dog's food bowl when he's finished with it (Doggie Teflon). I used to add four ounces to my MGA's gearbox to aid shifting. Some guys also like to use it as an assembly lubricant during rebuilds.

[Heuer]

Anyone with any experience (or is that 'measurable' experience?) with products from STP, Wynn's, Extralube, Molyslip etc? Is there any objective evidence - rather than ad blurbs - that these are of any use? :?

You have got to ask yourself if these additives are of any value why have the major oil companies not included them in their formulations? As Moe says some types may help keep a knackered engine going a bit longer but I doubt they will make any difference to a well maintained one that has regular oil changes.

[Moeregaard]

I once read a quote from a research chemist with one of the oil companies:

"Everyone wants to formulate their own oil."

Aside from the benefits STP provides to geriatric engines, the only other additive I've found that worked well was a gearbox additive called Slick 50. I had a high-mileage Toyota pickup with a crunchy second-gear syncro and this additive did mitigate the problem. I also added it to my '65 E-Type's 'box with positive results. I don't know if this stuff is still made, but I will look into it and report back.

It's worth noting here that many of the oil additives promoted for gearboxes and differentials are NOT compatible with limited-slip clutches, such as those used in E-Types. Read the fine print.

[Moeregaard]

I just did a Google search on "Slick 50," and they are indeed still in business. There are also innumerable links to other entities claiming that their engine additives are worthless and even harmful. The owners of Slick 50 did get their t*t in the wringer with the U.S. Federal Trade Commission some time ago for false advertising as well. I have no experience with their engine additives, so I can only comment on my own experience with their gearbox additive, which doesn't seem to appear on their website. If you've nothing to do, Google "Slick 50" and enjoy the mud slinging, as there is no shortage of opinions on this subject.

David makes a good point that the oil manufacturers would have included this stuff in their formulations if it met these claims, and one blog I read says that some additives can actually upset the chemistry of modern lubes--dino and synthetic alike. Frequent oil changes are probably still the best insurance and additives such as STP and Rislone are best used to stretch the lives of worn out lumps.

[MarkE]

I had the best job in the world as a kid in school, delivering and collecting cars around the country for a dealership. This was in the early 70s. Once I?d demonstrated my enthusiasm for the knackered trade-ins, I was given the worst of them to fettle prior to taking them to auction. The deal was that I would pocket 50% of any profit from the auction sale, so I was keen to employ every trick I?d read about.

My first big success was a Mk 2 Jag, which had very little oil pressure and a knocking big end. Fresh Duckhams 20/50 brought the oil pressure up well, and two cans of STP ?cured ? the big end problem, and I took the old Jag 100 miles or so to a ?distant? auction, entered it as a private sale?it made double the trade in allowance.

Quite a few Jags went the same way, and I had a smart Cooper ?S? from the proceeds. It all went a little pear shaped when I acquired a tired XJ6 from the sales manager, only 5 or so years old, but showing signs of rapid deterioration. It had a very noisy diff and gearbox, and it was automatic?the first auto I?d driven. I hunted through the mags and found the answer?Moly for the gearbox and Slick 50 for the diff?or the other way around. Whichever, I got it the wrong way around. The diff was silenced, and the auto box totally ruined?a box full of neutrals. Luckily, I hadn?t told anybody that I?d treated the gearbox, so the car just went into the garage for proper attention, and was duly sold on the forecourt.

I must have fixed 20 or so cars with similar treatment in one summer holiday, and they all responded amazingly well, so long as the right stuff was put in the right orifice. Unfortunately, towards the end of the summer, I bumped in to a buyer or two of my old cars at a couple of auctions, who told me in no uncertain terms that I?d ?tucked ?em up?. They were all dealers, so it was fair game if a little dangerous for my health.

So the short answer from me is, yes, these additives do make an old engine / box / diff sound very sweet?but it doesn?t last very long. I wouldn?t put any of that muck in my E Type!

[Moeregaard]

I can tell you that four cans of Bars Leaks will get a blown head gasket through the dealer trade-in process !