Planning a rebuild

[Mark Gordon]

My 4.2 Series 1 has been burning oil since before I bought it in 2008. Recently, the clutch has started slipping on hard acceleration. I've known that this day is coming, but now I'm having to face pulling the engine and gearbox, rebuilding the engine and replacing the clutch. My plan to continue to drive it this summer and then in late autumn before it turns too cold, start the job in my unheated garage. With a daughter getting married in two weeks and two other kids still in college, cash flow is tight, so I'm planning on buying the parts that I'll need over the next several months so that when I start the job, I can do as much as possible before cold weather sets in. To aid in budgeting the project, I have several questions:
1. Should I plan on purchasing a complete clutch kit or will I just need a new friction plate?
2. Is reboring the cylinders always necessary and how do I determine whether my engine needs reboring if it's not always necessary?
3. The clutch master cylinder is leaking. How reliable are the rebuild kits or should I just plan on buying a new master cylinder?
4. The engine currently starts within about 5-10 seconds after it's been sitting for several days and then starts instantly after the first start up of the day. Is there anything else that I should be investigating while I have the engine out? (Remember budget constraints plus I'd like to try to avoid Shipwright's Disease as I know it can be a nearly fatal condition!)

[1954Etype]

Great topic!

Only replace what needs to be done in my view. Remember, you will probably drive the car for 3000 miles a year so you aren't planning for a long term refurb.

I wouldn't mess about with the clutch slave. A new one doesn't cost the earth so just buy a new one. The clutch unit is about 140 pounds so again, probably not worth messing about with.

Measure the bores and if they are within tolerance, fit new rings. Measure the bearings and again, if within tolerance either fit new or run with what you have. The oil pump can also be checked.

Check the chains and guides for wear and only replace if badly worn.

Regarding the starting. Depends on what you sequence of starting is. I turn the key and let the fuel pump stop ticking before pressing the starter. Your choke might need adjusting as it is critical for cold starts.

HTH.

Angus

[Heuer]

Never had much luck with the current stock of new clutch slave's - I had two leak on me from the off. I eventually spotted a NOS AP slave on eBay and it has been fine. I understand the repair kits are a source of problems as well as they are made in China. There was a thread on J-L discussing the various identifying features and markings on the rogue ones. As for your starting issue I think you will find most E-Type's are the same, mine certainly is. If I start it daily it fires on the first turn but leaving it a few days means it needs a lot of cranking. Andrew Turvey of CMC view on starting an E-Type on a cold morning - "turn off the choke completely, push the accelerator to the floor and hold it there whilst cranking the engine over. Usually the engine fires-up, struggles asthmatically for five seconds then dies. Hopefully, it will then fire-up again using a little choke and less throttle". Why? "....... throttle flat to the floor is to add huge amounts of air to the fuel that has already been drawn into the engine. The air/fuel ratio becomes correct and if we have a spark - hey presto!" There is a thread on the subject here: http://etypeuk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3203

[Mark Gordon]

Thank you for your replies.
Angus: Actually it's the clutch master cylinder that's leaking, but I don't think that it makes any difference as to my question. I had read somewhere, probably on J-L, about the quality of the repair kits that you mentioned and I was wondering if the problem was common. New master cylinder it is!

David: I think that my car starts great and runs very well, particularly for a car with an obviously worn engine. I described my starting experience only as evidence that I think that the engine is generally in good shape, but has an oil burning problem. I had some real starting problems when I first got the car and on two occasions, it died on me and I had to have it trailered home. It nearly drove me crazy trying to find the source of the problem until I had the distributor rebuilt and it's been like a new engine ever since as far as starting and running are concerned.

[vee12eman]

Hi Mark,

Good luck with the rebuild. On the subject of clutch plates, I would have a look at the items when out of the car. See if the fingers of the spring plate are worn (if that is the style you have) or if the friction face is scored. If not, it is fine. Look at the friction plate and if the rivets are well below the face, keep it, if not, replace it. Check the release bearing and if in doubt, replace it - they are pretty cheap and sometimes you can get an ID number off the bearing and buy it direct from a bearing specialist, cheaper than the usual E-type specialists.

This will help you stay in budget, but reduce the amount of unnecessary engine removals in future!

Regards,

Simon.

[Mark Gordon]

Again, thanks to everyone for their replies and advice. Simon, I will check the clutch as you advised once I have the engine and gearbox out of the car this autumn. In the service manual's fault finding section, it states that the slipping could be due to oil having leaked onto the clutch (in a Jaguar, no way! ) and that if that is the cause, a temporary fix is to squirt carbon tetrachloride onto the friction plate. However, the manual does not describe how to do that. Would it be done through the small inspection hole on the lower right side of the bell housing?

[christopher storey]

Just before you get involved in great expense, just how bad is your oil burning problem? These engines do use oil, and 200 miles per pint is not uncommon even in a perfectly good engine. It is only if it starts to go below perhaps 125 miles per pint that I would think it worth a rebuild. Secondly, what sort of oil are you using? It is essential to use an old style multigrade, pereferably 20/50 . Using any thinner grades, and particularly synthetics , increases the oil consumption exponentially. Thirdly , is it a leaker? It is surprising just how much can be lost, particularly from the cam covers and/or the cam oil feed unions

[Mark Gordon]

Christopher,
The oil burning is bad. I'm lucky to get 50 miles to the quart. Recently, a lady pulled up next to me in traffic and told me that there was "white smoke" coming out of my car. I nodded and thanked her for telling me. The rear end of my Cream colored car builds up a brown film from the exhaust after only 100 miles or so. Fortunately, it leaks very little; no pools, just a couple of drips on the garage floor after a run. I've been running 20/50 since last October when I asked the forum about mixing standard oil with synthetic. At that time, Mike (SESH) advised adding Lucas Oil Stabilizer which has certainly helped but not eliminated the problem. Until the clutch started slipping, I just kept adding oil, but since I'm going to have to pull the engine to fix the clutch, I would be a fool not to address the oil burning problem at the same time.

[vee12eman]

Hi again Mark

I just re-read the original post and realised that I need to add that if your clutch is slipping then it is likely you will need a new friction plate at least. I think the carbon tetrachloride might help to remove the contamination, although it's not something I am knowledgeable about - certainly if the friction plate shows signs of contamination with oil, then I would replace it regardless - generally a slipping clutch will always require a replacement friction plate. I guess Brake cleaner is a substitute you could try, but if I had it out of the car, I think I would simply replace the plate, unless you particlarly enjoy removing engines/gearboxes?

As to a temporary fix without removing the clutch, I doubt it would be very effective in the long term. It is one of thse old school cures as evidenced here in a news article dated 1949:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1 ... 43,2322756

Being old school doesn't mean it won't work; I believe we can learn a lot from these old and oft forgotten fixes. By all means try it, or alternatively try brake cleaner, normally available in an aerosol, and spray as you describe. I would think though that fixing the slipping without curing the source problem (i.e. the leak), would be a very short term solution.

If you do try it, please report your success/failure, it would be very useful to know.

Regards,

Simon

[Mark Gordon]

Thanks, Simon. Where in the world did you find that article??! If I can find how to get some solvent onto the clutch, I'll give it a try, but the article makes it sound like it's a crutch for a badly slipping clutch and only intended to get hapless motorist home. I have no delusions that it would be a cure and my intention is to replace whatever needs replacing. With a daughter getting married in two weeks, my garage time is going to be pretty scarce for a while, but I will, indeed, report back when I give it a try.

[vee12eman]

Hi,

Google is a great tool! I love the challenge of the internet search, I just typed in carbon tetrachloride clutch and it was the second answer!

Having an E-type a country where they are less common has honed my searching skills. Anyway, good luck and keep us posted!

Regards,

Simon.

[christopher storey]

Mark : Ah, at 25 miles per pint I see the scale of your problem . No option but to tear some part of it down, but again before doing so I should try and isolate the problem with a leak down test which should tell you whether it is bores or valve guides ( or both) which is the cause

As far as whether a rebore is necessary, the first test is with your fingernail . If you can feel a perceptible ridge at the top of the bore, at the level where the top piston ring reaches the limit of its travel then a rebore is very likely to be necessary. The extent of the boring needed then can be determined by measurement for wear and ovality

[Mark Gordon]

Again, to all who have answered my questions, thank you for your guidance. Other than the carbon tet. test, I will not likely dive more deeply into the problems until this autumn but I will certainly report back as I learn more and will report on my progress, or lack thereof!

[PeterCrespin]

Mark, if your clutch has been slipping even occasionally it may have got significantly hotter than normal. I would not trust the cover plate/spring assembly of any slipping clutch for further service, even if there are no signs of bluing.

This all presupposes the clutch adjustment is correct... I'll be over mid July to off-load the containers and take the OTS away at long last so you get the other half of your garage back. I'll make sure I locate my internal/external micrometers and we can do a work-up on the old girl.

Pete

[Mark Gordon]

Thanks for the offer, Pete. I think that I'll take you up on it once you get here and have a chance to get settled. I've pretty much resigned myself to buying the entire clutch kit which includes friction disk, pressure plate and throwout bearing. To do less would probably be penny wise and pound foolish and I certainly don't want to have to pull the engine and gearbox again once everything is put back together. I think that I can still install the clutch kit plus all of the likely engine internals and still stay within my budget (I'm shooting for less than $1000). I just hope that the head doesn't need major work or, heaven forbid, I've got a cracked block.

[PeterCrespin]

Let's have a look at your existing release bearing which might have lots of meat left on it. I have lots of these clutch bits in new or good condition Mark. You might get more bang for your buck spending on other stuff so I wouldn't go buying that stuff just yet. It is off-the-shelf stuff if it turned out you did need it at the last minute, although I appreciate your bit-at-a-time purchasing ot spread the cost. A good kit is probably best value but you can certainly avoid buying everything. My OTS clutch is made up of various used bits checked for remaining life and it has just survived a couple of hours of the Paris traffic this morning...

[Mark Gordon]

Pete, I'll certainly take your advice on what's usable and what needs to be replaced. I'll go ahead and get gaskets, shells, bearings, etc. that we discussed earlier and hold off on the questionable items. BTW, if a rebore is indicated, does that automatically require new, oversized pistons or can new rings still seal the cylinders? Be kind, I know that I'm showing my ignorance.

[1954Etype]

Mark Pete will provide good counsel but if I were you, I'd just buy the gaskets. You don't know if you need new shells etc (and you don't know the size at this point). You definately will need gaskets. If you need a rebore, you will need new pistons.

[Mark Gordon]

I was afraid of that. From what I've been reading in the service manuals, I've inferred that new pistons must accompany a rebore. I guess that I'll have to pray that the bores are OK. New pistons will run about $1000 and then I've got the clutch and who knows what else. Where's my Rich Uncle when I need him? :?

[Mark Gordon]

As I promised about a year ago, I have an update on my engine/clutch work. My engine did need reboring, therefore new pistons, rings and shells. The head needed new guides, seats, springs and valves. The final straw was that the harmonic damper had somehow broken its split cone which secures it to the crankshaft and had for who knows how long been vibrating on the nose of the crankshaft. As a result, the crankshaft had worn by 0.003" and was toast. Add to that new clutch kit, engine mounts, clutch master cylinder (might as well rebuild the clutch slave cylinder while it's out), and (I must be forgetting something) I was several times past my original plan and budget. Pete Crespin to the rescue with a rebuilt Series II head and block that had been rebored (complete with oversized pistons and new rings and shells ready to install) for about what my machinist was quoting me for the head work alone. While waiting for spare cash to order the extra stuff that I needed, Shipwright's Disease set in and I cleaned, painted and polished everything I could get my hands on. Now, everything is done and the engine goes back in tomorrow! I can hardly wait.
Looking back on what I have found and answering my own question, a complete gasket set, timing chain kit, clutch kit and clutch master cylinder would complete the prework order. I didn't discover the engine mount problems until the engine was pulled and it would have been foolish to order pistons and rings before I knew the internal condition of the engine. Same thing goes for ordering any parts for the head before the tear down assessment. Had I known a year ago what I know now, I could have avoided the $1000 machinist's bill for cleaning and measuring my original head and block and rather than start buying parts, I could have taken the night grill cook's job at McDonald's and started squirreling away some extra cash.
To this point, it has been an interesting journey and I've certainly learned a lot along the way. I have a much better understanding as to how the drive train and the car in general work which is always valuable when one owns and drives a 45 year old car. My next breath holding moment will come when I push the starter button for the first time. I will report back in a few days when I have more to tell.