The 'E' Type Forum

It's on the Steering Column of my S 1.5 car. It's the white plastic item (nylon?) around the inner column. Its function is to interact with the indicators as a cancelling mechanism.

It also seems to have a key role in ensuring the inner column is supported in the outer tube.

I can't positively identify it from the parts manual and/or the SNGB diagram on page 34 of the catalogue, and one of SNGB's people also had problems with identifying it in a phone call this morning.

I'd appreciate any positive ID, a part number, and/or a source for a replacement.

[img][https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/112 ... 20Ring.jpg][img]


Regards, and thanks in anticipation of your replies,
Steve

It is an integral part of the indicator switch and is no more available for sale separately than any other internal bit of that switch, AFAIK, hence no separate part number.

It has no role is supporting anything and is only a self-cancelling ring running loosely around the column but indexed to it by a metal tab. That tab can be moved to an alternative notch on the ring if the plastic has broken. plastic tabs integral with the central groove of the castellated ring interact with the one-way cancellation fingers that protrude inside the groove when the indicators are switched on by the long chrome lever.

Your suggestion that it seems to support the column in the tube suggests to me that you may have the later column which has plastic rather than felt bearings. If you have a look at the S2 parts diagrams rather than the S1 you may be able to identify it. The indicator part is castellated ; the support bearings are just plain plastic rings . A guide to the identification of the column is that the later columns usually have the collapsible wire mesh section

Hi Chris,

I have not investigated the assembly since the failure, but I am convinced that it's a S1 item, as, from recent memory, there is no collapsible section.

When this part failed on Sunday, the inner column immediately developed about 1/4 inch of sideways play as the cracked-up remains of the ring came out from the housing.

Thanks to PeterCrespin's reply I have now identified that the ring is part of the indicator switch assembly, and have posted a request in the "Wanted" section of this forum, in case anyone has one available.

The steering column bearings are independent of the indicator switch, as you'd expect. If the outer column is fixed firmly to the bracket and the bulkhead it doesn't move. On a 4.2 it has nylon bushes top and bottom which hold the inner column snug. Felt bushes were mainly 3.8 items, certainly not S1.5. Again, bugger all to do with the indicator switch.

If something is wobbly because of the broken white plastic, it's either coincidence, the switch and casing not the column, or the column was somehow damaged and relying on inappropriate support from the switch, which I don't think is possible but am too lazy to go out and check.

It may be the column casing where the switch clamps to the column. If you have a S1.5 there may be a wider piece of tube that the indicator switch clamps to that is welded or crimped to the outer column sheet metal, (from memory). No matter how snug you tighten the switch U-clamp, if that attachment mpoint on the column is itself loose, the switch still moveso ut of line and trashes the white ring because it is no longer concentric with the column. The leverage is so great on the steering wheel that the first thing you know is when you hear and feel an expensive crunching sound as you twirl the wheel and the indicator switch (not the column) goes wobbly. This is certainly true on some S2 cars and since you have an S1.5 it might be the same for you.

Pete

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the further thoughts. There seems to be wear in the bushes as well as the broken ring. To some extent the cancelling ring seems to have been functioning as a (poor) substitute upper bush.

When I last looked at it about a year ago I had only just bought the car, and was not familiar with the details around this area, but I did observe that the plastic had hardened with age, and quite brittle.

The column outer tube is firmly fixed and not deformed. The U clamp for the switch is not loose or distorted either.

I'll dismantle properly in the next few days.

Still looking for the white ring. Seems a shame to have to buy a complete switch when mine is still functioning perfectly, but...

sjclark wrote:Still looking for the white ring. Seems a shame to have to buy a complete switch when mine is still functioning perfectly, but...

I had shock absorbers and an oil pressure sender once where only the bits inside were broken, plus a clutch release bearing with only the carbon bit worn. Don't get me started on bulbs - one tiny split in a filament and you have to chuck the lot out :-)

Totally unofficially, there might be hope. Since you are in the UK, it is possible to visit the premises of the manufacturer/seller of those switches. Were you to do so and the planets aligned in your favour, it's not inconceivable that they might help you out.

Car dealers or spare parts sellers will bend rules for good repeat customers, placing a largeish order in person on a quiet morning. You might find that the salesperson disappeared for a few minutes and went to the manufacturing floor. From whence, if they happened to be making a batch, he could 'liberate' a white ring and add that to the order as a single item (thereby doing themselves out of a switch sale but in the overall scheme of things making both parties feel good).

Of course, you have to invest in the relationship long term before calling in a favour like that. No business is going to treat a stranger merely wanting to save money the same way as a reliable customer asking for a bit of leeway, and nor should they, or there would be no benefit in being loyal. So whether or not it applies in this case, I would be making friends with whoever you do business with and giving them constructive feedback etc. so the relationship works for both parties. Those are the people who get the breaks.

Phoning up on a busy Saturday for the part would probably not work. A totally unknown new customer demanding nothing but that item would presumably have no chance. That's usually how the world works.

My information is a few years old now, so for all I know they might even sell just the ring. If they don't but you scratch their back they might scratch yours I suppose.

The bushes are Elastolan and are available from the usuals. People think that because there is lateral movement in the steering wheel the bushes need replacing but it is not always the case. When the car is hot the column expands and the steering is just right. If you replace the bearings the steering wheel will have no play when cold and be very stiff when hot meaning you will lose self centering and get squeaks when you turn a corner. Standard practice when fitting new bearings it to use a Dremel tool to sand them open. Takes time and patience as you need to trial fit the shaft after each pass with the sander. You must not use any grease or oil which will harm the Elastolan.. Buy two sets in case you screw up!

It should be feasible to cast your own. I have had success casting small plastic parts.
If you go to a modelling shop you should be able to buy a 2 part moulding product that allows you to make a soft silicone mould (I use pinkisil). The great thing about this is that the mould is really flexible and this makes it easy to remove irregularly shaped castings.
Then you can cast your part in a suitable resin.

Not so easy for thin-wall hollow parts, especially since the 'trip' that releases the indicator mechanism is a very thin (read 'hard to cast') rib in the concentric groove. There are 2-3 of them from memory so even if part os the ring is crunched you can sometimes move it round and engage the steel tab is a different castellation so that an alternative rib catches the switch fingers in the groove.

I *think* I've seen a photo where someone managed to dispense with the ring altogether and use the fixing 'lump' on either a cable tie or hose clip to trigger the fingers.

Pete

Upper column now dismantled and the cancelling ring is in about four large pieces and a lot of fragments!

The top column bearing was in one large piece going about half the circumference of the top tube and a few bits of plastic debris - totally shot! So the cancelling ring was indeed serving as a top bearing. Probably had something to do with the failure of the ring.

Replacement parts now ordered.

Thanks for all the thoughts and suggestions.