Gearbox oil level too high

iani · Post by **iani** » Fri May 23, 2014 1:14 pm

In trying to improve the quality of my gearchange, I had a local "Jaguar specialist" change the oil in my gearbox. I provided him with Redline MTL and he duly set to, jacking the front of the car up on a pair of trolley jacks, obviously the car was at an angle. Over the last few hundred miles I have been having increasing difficulty in selecting 1st & 2nd gear (reverse has been a problem since I bought the car). I decided to check the oil level today and add some Wynn's friction reducer & leak stop as the box had been leaking since the change too. I opened the filler plug from the access hole on the tunnel and was surprised to find a lot of oil coming out, I don't mean drips, it ran out for good few minutes. I was further surprised at the consistency, much more like EP oil than MTL so I checked how much he'd used. Of the just under 3.8l in the container, there was over half left, this means perhaps 1.5l of MTL had been mixed with an unknown quantity of EP oil in the gearbox, unknown due being filled at an angle.

Could this overfilling have been the cause of my deteriorating gearchange? is the mixture of oils likely to have caused any lasting damage? I have drained it all and replaced with EP90 and Wynns friction reducer/leak stop, after a short test drive the forward change seems a lot better, reverse is still graunching (so no laughing at me at the e-type weekend please!)

Ian

Post by **Heuer** » Fri May 23, 2014 1:36 pm

Filling with 3.8l of oil will increase the pressure in the gearbox and could push oil past the seals hence the leak. The Redline MTL, though expensive, is probably the best oil you can use in the Moss box although it really begins to improve things after about 500 miles for some reason. Personally I am not a fan of the 'leak stop' products because users seem to fall into two camps - those for whom it works and those for whom it causes seals to fail or at least make the leak much worse. From what I can see it may help (temporarily) if you have a motor with 100,000 miles because it causes the seals to swell (temporarily!) to give you time to book the car in for proper remedial work. It really causes problems if a seal is physically damaged as the swelling exacerbates it and causes the seal to fail completely.

Personally - and I am currently messing around with a leak on my Moss box - I would avoid any kind of additive and just go with plain 30W (20w50 engine oil is ideal) as Jaguar recommended or fill with Redline MTL for a superb gearchange. Under no circumstances should you use EP90 in a Moss box because it seems to cause the symptoms you describe especially when hot. You are the second person this week who has reported the problem! *

Oh - and avoid that 'specialist' in the future like the plague

Edit: *been talking to JB Sports Engineering and they recommend EP90 in the Moss boxes they run and restore to avoid problems with first gear. :?

iani · Post by **iani** » Fri May 23, 2014 1:42 pm

This is a 4 synchro box David, I have it's replacement sat on the floor, a reconditioned S-type 4 synchro with reconditioned compact type A Overdrive, just waiting for Angus to be able to fit it. Hopefully I can keep it going until September, all depends if reverse decides to give up on me.

Ian

Post by **Heuer** » Fri May 23, 2014 3:01 pm

Sorry - my brain is locked into Moss boxes at the moment. The reason for my confusion was you putting MTL in there - it is only recommended for the Moss box, the Jaguar 4 speed needs Red Line MT-90 75W90 GL-4 Gear Oil. Reverse can be a problem even on newer boxes - I have to go into 5th with my T5 box before moving down to reverse for a crunch free selection. Don't think any harm will have been done to your box with over filling as the Jaguar box has a breather whereas the Moss does not.

KingRichard · Post by **KingRichard** » Fri May 23, 2014 4:34 pm

Hi,

I have the same configuration laying in my garage waiting to be fitted. What oil you wil be using with the OD?

Very curious about it.

Richard van den Brand

iani wrote:This is a 4 synchro box David, I have it's replacement sat on the floor, a reconditioned S-type 4 synchro with reconditioned compact type A Overdrive, just waiting for Angus to be able to fit it. Hopefully I can keep it going until September, all depends if reverse decides to give up on me.

Ian

iani · Post by **iani** » Fri May 23, 2014 7:05 pm

Having read a lot of conflicting advice recently I think I'll go with EP90 as per the gearbox manufacturer spec'. I have seen Laycock documents which say to not use EP gears but given both units share oil it seems logical to use the right oil for the most expensive component.

Ian

iani · Post by **iani** » Fri May 23, 2014 7:19 pm

Heuer wrote:Sorry - my brain is locked into Moss boxes at the moment. The reason for my confusion was you putting MTL in there - it is only recommended for the Moss box, the Jaguar 4 speed needs Red Line MT-90 75W90 GL-4 Gear Oil. Reverse can be a problem even on newer boxes - I have to go into 5th with my T5 box before moving down to reverse for a crunch free selection. Don't think any harm will have been done to your box with over filling as the Jaguar box has a breather whereas the Moss does not.

I was wrong too David, it was indeed the MT-90 oil that I had, not MTL, I had that stuck in my head for some reason.

Ian

david muir · Post by **david muir** » Sun May 25, 2014 1:31 pm

Folks, last year had tunnel cover off to lubricate propshaft u/j bearings. Took 'opportunity' to lubricate speedo cable and change g/ box oil. At MOT , attention was drawn to an oil leak, and I suspected, as per David's gearbox leak, the speedo cable joint. Took cover etc off this morning and no real sign of leak but obvious there had been oil coming from breather. Checked oil level and it was just on level now so had obviously been slightly overfilled( familiar with this type of overfilling with motorcycle fill/level plugs!). Anyway, have decided that all is in order now but have also checked as to whether there is a speedo cable 'o' ring in place- no mention in manuals( Jag & Haynes). Where does the 'o' ring go?-between the speedo dive g/box and the gearbox or on the speedo cable end?- anyone got a photo?
Thanks

Post by **Heuer** » Sun May 25, 2014 2:39 pm

There should be one O ring on the speedo gearbox between it and the cable. There is also one on the bearing drive assembly. Pictures in the SPC.

Post by **mgcjag** » Sun May 25, 2014 3:23 pm

Hi Ian.......have you checked the clutch adjustment on the slave cylinder my reverse was poor when I got my e had to extend the pushrod to get the correct adjustment..Steve

david muir · Post by **david muir** » Sun May 25, 2014 3:23 pm

Post by **Heuer** » Sun May 25, 2014 4:55 pm

Spare Parts Catalogue!

david muir · Post by **david muir** » Sun May 25, 2014 4:59 pm

Ta David!

iani · Post by **iani** » Sun May 25, 2014 5:16 pm

mgcjag wrote:Hi Ian.......have you checked the clutch adjustment on the slave cylinder my reverse was poor when I got my e had to extend the pushrod to get the correct adjustment..Steve

I have adjusted it but couldn't seem to make any improvement, I could make it worse though, I'll give it another go when I can get an assistant to check the movement as I adjust the rod.

Ian

Post by **mgcjag** » Sun May 25, 2014 7:10 pm

Hi Ian...you should not need an assistent to check movement when you adjust the pushrod...follow thr procedure in the manual...you check the free play as you adgust..Steve

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Gearbox oil level too high

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