S1 water pump on XJ6 Series lll engine

[norman m. macleod]

Hi all,
I am intending using an XJ6 (Ser.lll) engine in my 1967 Series 1 2+2. The XJ6 water pump cannot be used as the outlet points directly at the steering column position. A friend of mine with the same problem cut off the outlet and welded on a bend to avoid this, and, whilst it is functional, it is aesthetically less than desirable. So I decided to fit a Series 1 E-type water pump, but am advised that, if I do so, I shall also have to change to an E-type timing cover as well. Has anyone any advice/experience in this situation....? All comments gratefully received, before I purchase all the necessary parts........
Best regards,
Norman.

[PeterCrespin]

Hi all,
I decided to fit a Series 1 E-type water pump, but am advised that, if I do so, I shall also have to change to an E-type timing cover as well. Has anyone any advice/experience in this situation....? Norman.

There are three issues - simple bolt-up issues with fasteners, impeller issues and plumbing issues.

AFAIK the pump will bolt right up. There are differences between 3.8 and 4.2 covers but not in the water pump area.

There are two depths of impeller so as long as you don't have a shallow impeller in a deep cover (poor pumping) or a deep impeller in a shallow cover (fouling) it should work OK.

There are inlet curve differences and occasionally you find a pump with return or bypass fittings which need a hose connection to be fitted in place of a plug, or vice versa. Those issues are obvious with side-by-side comparison.

I happen to have an S2 E-type pump fitted to my Series III XJ6 engine. It would work just as well with a Series 1 4.2 E-type pump AFAIK. The pulleys or flanges can be swapped around and although the XJ pumps tend to have longer shafts you're using an E-type pump so you should be OK. Did you grind away the rectangular lug at the back of the SIII head to make certain it doesn't foul the engine stabiliser bracket on the bulkhead?

Pete

[norman m. macleod]

Hi Pete,
Many thanks for your valued comments....will take it from there. Re the grinding of the rectangular lug at the rear of the Slll XJ6 head, was not aware of that requirement, will take that on board as well........
Again many thanks, and
Best regards,
Norman.

[PeterCrespin]

Hi Pete,
Many thanks for your valued comments....will take it from there. Re the grinding of the rectangular lug at the rear of the Slll XJ6 head, was not aware of that requirement, will take that on board as well........
Again many thanks, and
Best regards,
Norman.

The grinding may be an installation-specific thing Norman. By the time you've factored in engine mount variances (I went from stock to poly), frame variances and lug/stabiliser differences, you might just get away with it.

On mine it was way too close for comfort, given how much an engine moves around and how loud the banging would be if it ever hit the bulkhead. The head is already a fair bit longer than an E-type head because of the 'coffin' bit for the extra water passages. With the lug up there as well it needed me to lift the engine out again after my test fit and have at it with a rasp. I only got rid of about half of it but that gave me 5-6 mm extra leeway from memory.

Take care if fitting the negine single-handed from above (in my case temporarily without the picture frame to ease the angle). The cam feed pipe can hang up on the bulkhead stabiliser mount. Ask me how I know...luckily with no damage done....

External valve gear feed eh? Makes you think of the Triumph/BSA/Norton twins :-)

[norman m. macleod]

Hi Peter,
Many thanks for your further comments....apologies for the inordinate delay in responding, I have been off in faraway lands....
1.0 Re the back of the XJ6 Slll head, your comments noted, but I am not sure where you took the metal off. I do not have a "proper" E-Type head to compare, only photographs. The E-Type head seems to be flatter across the back, i.e., as you said, shorter. There is a little cast raised block at the rear of the Slll head, with a number stamped on it....just behind the rearmost plug 'ole...is this the area that may interfere? I took a photograph of it, but being a bit of an IT Neanderthal, couldn't work out how to insert it in this.....
2.0 Just of passing interest (it may help others....) Further research on the water-pump question seems to indicate that the two main problems are:- (i) The impeller on the Series 1 pump is 2.75 ", whereas the Slll pump impeller is 3.00". Therefore, whilst it will fit, the volume of water moved will be sinificantly less, and
(ii) the exit passage outline in the timing cover on the Slll and the Series 1 pump are different, reducing the sealing "land" for the gasket to a minimum, with potential leakage.
The best solution, apparently, is to fit a Series 2 pump (as you have done...) as it has the 3.00" impeller also. I have since purchased one of these, but, unfortunately, had already purchased a new Series 1 pump. Plans to put that one on the mantelpiece as a conversation starter were met with less than enthusiasm by the Minister for Home Affairs......
Re the cam oil-feed pipes, definitely a bit Triumphish, I've never been in favour of solid feed pipes in this area, so am fitting a new flexi kit from Rob Beere, a work of art. I think what put me off solid pipes from way back was the set-up on the Series ll Ariel Square 4's (I had two...)which had about a yard of small-bore pipe wending a most unlikely path around the frame before finally arriving at the head. Almost guaranteed to crack and drip hot oil all over the heads within a year or so.....
Any more specific comments on the possible metal removal would be greatly appreciated.....
All the best from Down Under (albeit at an unseasonal 42 deg.C.....)
P.S. I had intended to install the engine and gearbox from below, I have an overhead rail and chainblock that can lift the entire car body, any comments...?
Regards,
Norman.

[christopher storey]

Norman : Happy New Year to you. It is undoubtedly safer to fit the engine from below . However, paradoxically the clearances are considerably smaller - something of the order of 1/4 inch maximum between some parts round the rear of the engine , so it is absolutely vital to have an assistant watch very carefully as a. you lower the frame over the engine and more particularly b. winch the engine up into position once the body has been lowered over it

[PeterCrespin]

Hi Norman - you have identified the correct block at the back of the XJ head. As far as I could see, apart from providing a surface for the stamped number, it has no other purpose. The risk of fouling comes from the way the rear edge comes so close to the stabiliser bracket so I got a coarse alloy file to it while the engine was out after its test-fit.

I easily filed trook the rear edge off it and filed the block closer to the shape of the head at that point. I didn't have to remove it completely - just going at the back of it easily gave me a good few more millimetres clearance and it has never banged in service.

Not sure if this applies to every long head or just the big-valve EFI S3 XJ head - my spare XJ engine is the same type and the only other spare XK is a 3.4 for the D-type..