Manual Gearbox 2+2 Options

[baldyz1]

I am really confused about which manual gearbox options will work in a 2+2.

Mine is an automatic series 1 1966 currently and I want to convert to manual.

The advice I am getting is to use a V12 series 3 gearbox and add an overdrive. But V12 boxes seem hard to come by now.

Other suggestions are an XJ6 manual from a series 1 which supposedly goes straight in and has overdrive as standard. Does it?

Finally just fit a standard all synchro box. But what happens with the different length? Will I be looking for a prop or will mine fit.

Finally are all these options going to be too expensive now and should I look at a new 5 speed conversion and if so which one?

If somebody has been through these choices and come out tops let me know.

Many thanks

[Heuer]

Have a read of these threads: viewtopic.php?t=1823 and viewtopic.php?t=8553 and viewtopic.php?t=7737

Pete Crespin is the man to talk to about the MOD conversion.

This site has some photos: http://www.mraven.com/E-type_4-speed.html

[iani]

Either an XJ6 OD box or an S-type OD box, the latter having the benefit of using the same top cover as a standard E-type 'box and the same ratio's as the later S2 gearbox, meaning you lose nothing if & when the OD plays up

Ian

[chrisfell]

I looked at this for my 2+2 a few years back. I quickly came to the opinion that I wouldn't bother for a number of reasons.

1. Cost. A replacement gearbox with shortened prop shaft would cost ?2,500 (then), plus the cost of getting the old box and propshaft out. Fitting would have possibly required a little bodywork fettling (hammerwork?) and some engineering to make the speedo drive fit.

2. The resulting overdrive top gear would have reduced the torque available and therefore acceleration when cruising. I know it is lazy, but a really like the fact that I can overtake in top gear just by squeazing the throttle pedal a bit.

3. If I was determined to reduce the engine speed at (say) 75 mph another alternative could be to change the axle ration from 3.07 to 2.88. Result? Lower engine reves in top gear for a given speed, but still retainig 100% jaguar components (not that this is important to me).

4. Changing a gearbox is something I dont have room to do, nor do I have all the equipment required. I'd have to get someone else to do the work or buy in a few pieces of heavy kit - which I'd also have to find room to store afterwards.

5. Finally, I viewed my car, a 2+2 and the cheapest of all the E-Type variants, as being less worthy of having ?2.5k invested in it than any other E-Type.

I really enjoy driving my car the way it is. I'm happy bimbling along open roads at up to 60 or motorways at 70. I dont need to drive faster, as it means a spend less time actually driving the car for a given distance. When I drive I very rarely put the radio on. Instead I listen to the car and the road. I wind the windows down to listen to the countryside. I dont worry about the noise generated by the wind rushing through the gaps around the doors and windows agt high speed. Instead I slow and enjoy the drive, the feel of the steering wheel, the sights and sound of the engine under the bonnet. I listen to the creaks and growns, rattles and shakes, the changing tempo of valve clatter, the rush of air through the carbs as hills require more throttle pressure, and the change in exhaust note as the car rolls down hill on the over-run.

I dont think that any of this would be changed for the better by a gearbox with overdrive on 4th or an overdrive 5th gear.

However, if someone were to offer me a Jaguar MOD gearbox for little money or less........

[iani]

No need to change the propshaft with an S-type box Chris, I'm very pleased with my OD, it makes for very relaxing high speed cruising.

[Heuer]

3. If I was determined to reduce the engine speed at (say) 75 mph another alternative could be to change the axle ration from 3.07 to 2.88. Result? Lower engine reves in top gear for a given speed, but still retainig 100% jaguar components (not that this is important to me).

The 2.88 diff makes the car difficult to drive smoothly at low revs and you need an engine modified for high torque to get the best out of it. I have a 2.88 but if I ever had the chance to do it again 3.07 would be the highest I would go.

There is a MOD box on eBay at the moment: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Jaguar-E-Type ... SwZ8ZXC2lc

[baldyz1]

Thanks guys for all the great replies.

I saw this box on eBay.

Advice I am being given suggests that the ratios between 1st and 2nd on these boxes are close and you virtually have to change immediately. The suggestion is a V12 box mated to an overdrive as we would be rebuilding anyway. I know we would have to find a correct bell housing etc..

I feel really green in this area but if you don't ask people and pose stupid questions then you don't learn.

Thanks

[iani]

Thanks guys for all the great replies.

I saw this box on eBay.

Advice I am being given suggests that the ratios between 1st and 2nd on these boxes are close and you virtually have to change immediately. The suggestion is a V12 box mated to an overdrive as we would be rebuilding anyway. I know we would have to find a correct bell housing etc..

I feel really green in this area but if you don't ask people and pose stupid questions then you don't learn.

Thanks

You'd need to know which car this 'box came out of originally, if it is an S-type, the ratios are identical to the standard S2 gearbox.

[mgcjag]

Hi Baldzy.....whats your name....have a look at this link to the S type register it details gearbox numbers for an all syncro 4 speed your looking for a stamp on the box JBN with 3 to 5 digits http://www.jagstyperegister.com/wherenumbers.htm have a look in the wanted/sale section a couple of weeks ago i had a JBN box and compact overdrive for sale, pay close attention to the box top cover the one shown would not suit the E .....there are some posts here if you search overdrive that discusses overdrive on a V12 box

[mystery type]

but if you don't ask people and pose stupid questions then you don't learn.

Indeed, and jaguar did fit an overdrive to the E Type, ...
Its chassis number is '1E50706DN', the 'DN' suffix as always in Jaguar nomenclature indicating the presence of an overdrive.

[baldyz1]

Great help here from everyone. I will study the types outlined and the ratios etc...

Perhaps I will add a table here in case someone stumbles upon this thread.

Thanks
Chris

[mgcjag]

Hi Chris...one thing we missed here...in your first post you say use a manual box from a V12 S3 E and add an overdrive.....dont think this is possible.. the V12 E box dosnt have an output shaft to connect to the o/drive thats why you need a box thats originaly had an o/d on it

[baldyz1]

Once again thanks for the input it has been invaluable.

Chris

[baldyz1]

So after digging around, here are the ratios I gathered together;

Desc. 1 2 3 4 Diff
Moss (EB) 3.377 1.86 1.283 1
S-Type 3.377 1.86 1.283 1 3.54
E-Type EJ 2.68 1.74 1.27 1 3.54
E- Type EJS (2+2) 3.04 1.97 1.33 1

Etype V12 2.93 1.905 1.389 1 3.54
Etype Series 2 2+2 (K** Box) 2.93 1.905 1.389 1 3.54
XJ Series 1 2.93 1.905 1.389 1
EE Box 2.93 1.905 1.389 1

Any inaccuracies spotted then let me know.

I have now found a series 2 2+2 box which matches the ratios of the V12 so that is what we were after to avoid the close ratio between 1 and 2.

Without the help of you guys I would not have easily reached this conclusion so thanks again.

[tinworm]

Well Chris, the top gear on the boxes is 1:1 - where you have 3.54 this refers to the final drive ratio in the back axle.

Barrie

[Heuer]

There is also the K series boxes:

2.93, 1.90, 1.39, 1.0, n/a - Jaguar K* series box
2.68, 1.74, 1.27, 1.0, n/a - Jaguar EJ series box

If you want to work out revs/mph use this calculator: http://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_speed_rpm.htm

[mgcjag]

Hi Chris....as with what i said above about the S3 gearbox and the output shaft too short to fit in an o/d ..the same goes for a S2 2+2 gearbox.....they never had overdrives so what you have found is a box and o/d that was fitted in a 2+2 and not a 2+2 box......did noticd one on ebay advertised as such.......hope this helps

[iani]

Here are the S-type OD 'box ratios:

I - 3.377

II - 1.86

III - 1.283

IV - 1

V - 0.778

Source: http://www.automobile-catalog.com/auta_details1.php

[MarekH]

It sounds as though there may be some confusion with Jaguar gearboxes.

Essentially, the gearboxes themselves are the same size, but they come with one of two tail pieces bolted onto their end as standard:- a short tail for the short wheelbase cars and a long tail for the long wheelbase cars. The compact type-A overdrive happens to be exactly the same length as the long tailed manual gearbox.

For the example you quote, the v12, being a long wheelbase car, you can thus go from auto to manual (or manual with overdrive) by simply swapping out the autobox and bellhousing without worrying about the propshaft length.

This is how I fitted a manual gearbox (with overdrive) to my car, using all oem parts.

If you have a long wheelbase car, you don't want to be buying a gearbox for a short wheelbase car. You can't simply "add" an overdrive to that without a lot of grief.

The top plate only affects where the gear lever will come out - if it comes out in the same place as the oem setup then it means you don't need to customise anything - you can simply use oem parts. The e type and s type had the same "short" top plate geometry. You can convert "long" top plate to the same geometry as the e type (and s type) if you have a hacksaw and mig welder. I have a picture in my archives somewhere showing where to cut if you need it.

See
http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap_vi ... 1170885932

and for a bit of fun, see
http://www.jag-lovers.org/snaps/snap_vi ... 1326286185

There is plenty more information on the j-l website if you search for it..

kind regards
Marek

[baldyz1]

Thanks again for further feedback.

The gearbox I have bought has a KJS prefix so should be from a S2 2+2 and is supposedly original (it was indeed taken from a 2+2 S2). These should give me the better ratios (better for me) 2.93, 1.90, 1.39, 1.0.

To that has been bolted the OD which was in use within the car up until recently. I am hoping then that the lever exit and prop length should work as the donor had no tunnel changes at least that is what I was told.

Fingers crossed. I will update the thread when I discover more.

Thanks
Chris