Alternator with integrated regulator

[Heuer]

After my alternator failed on our recent trip to France I have been looking for a replacement. The one fitted was a Lucas (LRA00226?) unit with an integrated regulator but got left behind after the replacement was fitted and I can't recall the model number. It now sports a Lucas A133-55 alternator which also has an integrated regulator - a unit from a Rover V8/Jaguar XJ6 as far as I can see. It fits and works but being a s/h unit I am loath to leave it on the car and want to replace it in due course.


I started with Rob Beere who offers a 45 amp Nippondenso lightweight alternator but unfortunately that requires the fitting of a micro-vee belt and associated pulleys. Not in itself a big problem as it comes as a complete kit, until you add EDIS/Megajolt into the picture. Ray's bracket for the pick-up sensor is made for the the standard crank pulley and the micro-vee one is much wider. Although Rob was very helpful in offering to measure things for me I think it is probably far too much hassle to have to modify/re-calibrate the Megajolt together with removing the crank and water pump just to fit an alternator.

The J-L voiced solution seems to be to fit a Delco or Hitachi integrated alternator but they output over 100 amps when the E-Type wiring is rated at 45 amps, a figure more than sufficient to meet all the car's needs. They also require modifications to the support mounts which can be a pain. Also I am not sure of the availability of the Delco unit on these shores, or indeed rural Europe. Bob Skelley has written comprehensive two page instructions on fitting a Delco integrated here: http://bob_skelly.home.comcast.net/~bob_skelly/alternator_conversion/wiring_alternator1.html

SNGB offer the standard Lucas 11AC unit but the failure rate of the 4TR regulators is quite alarming so I have no intention of going back to using one. The V12 alternator is integrated but I don't think it will fit the 4.2 without modification. The biggest problem I am having, other than making sure the mounts are correctly spaced, is the direction of rotation of the standard alternator which means the fan has to be correct as well to draw air backwards so the diodes are cooled first.

The Lucas A133 unit obviously fits and is widely available given the popularity of the XJ6 and Rover V8 engines. The only problem I have noticed so far is that its diameter means its casing hits the cylinder head when you are changing the belt. This means the belt is not exactly a slip fit and does require some levering to get off/on. Easy in the garage but could be a challenge on the side of the road!

Any other suggestions?

[tinworm]

Hi Dave, As stated in another post I fitted a Bedford Rascal 45A alternator which is narrow, fits the left side of the engine has a pulley that will fit the earlier single vee belt (although you would require a new belt undoubtedly) and pulleys - in fact the front mounting of the alternator lines up perfectly with the front mounting on the original dynamo bracket. The alternator has a lucas number which I can dig out if required - I also have a photo or two of the installation if interested.

regards Barrie

[MarekH]

A 45amp alternator would be a step backwards. It's a racing item and not really suitable for anything but the most spartan of modern road cars. With your fan and ignition upgrades, if anything, you want more headroom from your electricity supply - after all, this is probably a major factor in why the previous units have failed - people upgrade components like lights, fans, stereo amplifiers and make bigger demands from their alternator/battery/wiring supply but think it's still just an old 1960s car.....

The Delco/Hitachi solution is tried and tested. The fact that the alternator can output up to 100amps is a bonus as it will hopefully never be running at full capacity, hence less likely to overheat.

Your car will only pull as many amps out of the new unit as it would out of any other alternator, so the only consideration I'd give here is to make sure that the cable between the alternator and battery is of the right gauge - any current past this point will simply be distributed across the various components in the normal way, so you ought not to have any concerns about "100amps" - it's actually a plus point not a minus.

The standard v12 alternator is a 65amp Butec with a separate regulator. (I have ditched mine in favour of a standard XJS (integrated) single wire alternator.)

Using the same alternator as Ray (and others) would be the obvious choice.

kind regards
Marek

[Heuer]

Thanks Marek but my car's power requirements are minimal given the various upgrades I have done (Kenlowe radiator fan, Fiero blower and Megajolt) are all a similar current to standard. About the only increase in current would be caused by using the 60w Halogen H4 headlights but I rarely need to use them. The stock 11AC unit is rated at between 37 amps and 43 amps depending on who you consult so I see no reason to go for double that. In fact if Ray L drops by he will also criticise the use of high power alternators in the E-Type as he has done on J-L. The problem with the high output ones is they will go to maximum (~130 amps on the Delco) if one of the battery cells goes bad and cable rated at that level is going to be pretty un-manageable. Anything less and there is a fire risk. Rob Beere recommended the 40 or 70 amp Nippondenso units rather than the 100 amp version and my installed alternator is rated at 55 amps and not causing problems.

Barrie - I have the double V belt system and changing that to single or multi groove is going to involve significant hassle. Only wish I had written down the number of my previous alternator

[grhh]

Hi David,

You can also fit a Bosch alternator ex golf mk2 petrol engines. They are made in 55.65 and 90 amps. I've the 90 amps as my car is fitted with the air con. This is the same type of alternator fitted to the XJ40 and xjs v12 from the 90's. That's the alternator I've on my xjs fitted from new and the only maintenance was changing the regulator at 190 000 kms ....

If that help please find following the ref of the alternator fitted to my E type:
bosch : 0 120 469 727 729
vw : 026 903 015 B

If you want some pictures I can email you a couple, as I don't know how to post pictures here.

You can also have a look at the following link :
http://www.coolcatcorp.com/faqs/LucasBosch.html

regards
Gerald

[grhh]

PS : as you have the double v pulley, any workshop should be able to make one for you that fit the Bosch alternator. Even in France you can source one of those alternator (new) for less than 200 pounds.

regards
Gerald

[vikla]

David

I have a similar problem to yourself in that I have a Delco Remy DRA6010 alternator on my car which was used on Fords and some Austin Maestros - it works fine but is bigger than the original 11AC on 4.2s, it hits the cylinder head and therefore getting the belt on is very difficult.

I came across this posting which is about fitting a better internally regulated Lucas alternator to a Jag 420G.
Maybe this is a solution - see http://this.is.fingersfroom.co.uk/index ... -to-18acr/

What do you think?

[Heuer]

I am still trying to find out what alternator was fitted to my car before it failed because it was the ideal size and power output. One of those jobs I meant to do and write down the part number but never got around to. Here are a couple of pictures of it though. Can anyone identify which model it is given the fairly distinctive rear features?



Pete? - your starter for ten!

[adv_rider]

This may be an option, but Im not sure if this has an integrated regulator (i dont think so.)


http://partsxks.com/i-6917270-08-9010-a ... -type.html

[Heuer]

It does indeed have an integrated regulator as it is a "one wire" but not sure I need something with an 84 amp output!

[PeterCrespin]

You would never get 84 amps without a commensurate load calling for it. The max current capacity is normally a 'reserve' theoretical maximum and is never developed unless, say, you have a dead flat battery and drive off with everything working on a wet night after jump-starting the car.

Pete

[MarekH]

The alternator which is capable of putting out a higher current will handle transients better. When your Otter switch demands a HUGE inrush of current to boot the fans into operation, the pesky little 30 amp alternator will be under strain, the 60 amp alternator won't be troubled and the 90 amp alternator will take it in its stride.

A "water" analogy is useful for thinking about how electricity works:- you can think of voltage as the level of water in a canal - current only flows from high to low and the rate of flow is the gradient.

A switch is like a lock gate that opens instantly - you are faced with a wall of water which will have to re-equilibrate very quickly. When inductive loads are connected/disconnected, the current usage, which was zero, becomes infinite to meet that "step change" and then it decays quickly to provide the new steady state running conditions. The big alternator will be more robust in providing for those changing loads.

In a similar fashion, we all observe speed limits of 70mph so you don't need a car which can run at 150mph, but I'll bet the etype is under less strain accelerating than a Trabant would be. The "big alternator must be bad" thinking isn't really focusing on what actualkly goes on.

kind regards
Marek

[tinworm]

Basically all you need is total load (in Amperes) plus 5% to calculate your alternator size - anything more than that is unnecessary.

regards Barrie

[71 V12]

Marek,

Interested to learn which XJS alternator you converted to and what was involved in fitting and wiring it up? Did you have to alter the mounting brackets to align the pulley?

The Butec is feeble as soon as the lights or fan kick in, the indicator flash interval increases to about 10 seconds, more amps would be very good.

Kind regards

Kevin

[MarekH]

Dear Kevin,

I have replied via private message as it isn't directly relevant to David's thread (although the logic behind the upgrade was the same as already explained).

kind regards
Marek

[Barry]

David,
Just looking around the various E type upgrades and came across JD Classics advertising an upgraded alternator. It may be worth a phone cal, and maybe fit the bill.

Best
Barry

[stretoo]

Hello.

I guess this would help you:

http://www.powerlite-units.co.uk/pdf/ne ... rnator.pdf

http://www.powerlite-units.co.uk/

http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/p ... tegory/168

Best regards

St?phane

[Heuer]

Spotted this kit on eBay. It is produced by Vicarage for the 3.8 but uses the Duplex belt and pulleys so would easily fit the 4.2 as well:



I wonder what make the alternator is?

[grhh]

It's a magneti marrelli a127 alternator.

Kind regards
Gerald

[Heuer]

Many thanks Gerald, and well spotted! Widely available at around ?40.

Those Powerlite alternators also look very appealing as well but a bit more expensive at ?240. More research required.