Series 1.5 oil level and engine gearbox height and mounting

Technical advice Q&A

Topic author
French Collection
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:21 pm
Location: Aix-en-provence, France
Ireland

#1 Series 1.5 oil level and engine gearbox height and mounting

Post by French Collection » Sun Nov 06, 2016 10:23 am

I have just completed a 3 year total rebuild of a '68 series 1.5 4.2 roadster. Still a few niggles to sort.

One is that it required more than 2 gallons of oil (1 or 2 pints more....!) to get to the level on the dipstick.
Although the car runs fine (in the garage, and 40 miles on the road so far), I would rather not have it overfull.

Dipstick is the original and no indication that it is is not correct. Apparently the dipstick from a 2.4 looks the same except that is it stamped 2.4. Mine is not.

I discussed this with one E-type expert and he suggested I check that the engine gearbox assembly tilts slightly back towards the rear of the car, as this is how it should be and would obviously affect oil level on dipstick which is at the rear of the engine.

I checked and actually my engine gearbox tilts slightly forward (i.e. front of engine maybe 5mm lower than rear). Engine mounts are new and correct. The engine is not being lifted by the stabiliser on the bulkhead. Even if I disconnect the stabiliser completely there is no change to the height / angle of engine.

I have also checked the rear gearbox support. It has the spring with rubber seats top and bottom, bobbin, and the mounting plate. No split pin through the pin from the gearbox. The mounting plate bolts directly to the underside of the car with 5 bolts. So all present and correct as far as I can see. The only way I can see to affect the angle of the assembly would be to put some spacers between the mounting plate and the body. But I have not seen any such part on any catalogues.

Can anyone confirm that the engine gearbox assembly should tilt slightly towards rear of car?
Has anyone come across spacers between the gearbox mounting plate and the body?
Any other suggestions?

Thanks for reading!
French Collection
1968 E-type 4.2 roadster
1975 XJC
1976 Triumph Stag

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

Mark Gordon
Posts: 933
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:33 pm
Location: Burke, Virginia
United States of America

#2 Re: Series 1.5 oil level and engine gearbox height and mounting

Post by Mark Gordon » Sun Nov 06, 2016 2:03 pm

No, the engine should be pretty close to level. The engine requires 2 1/4 gallons for a fill, so it sounds like you're right on the money at 2 gallons plus 1 or 2 pints. Mark or make a note of the level indicated on your dipstick and "stick" with that. (I know, bad pun.)
Mark

67 OTS 1E14988, 2015 Camry XSE

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

mgcjag
Moderator
Posts: 6207
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:15 pm
Location: Ludlow Shropshire
Great Britain

#3 Re: Series 1.5 oil level and engine gearbox height and mounting

Post by mgcjag » Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:04 pm

You should fill with 8.5 lit........some dipsticks have been known to not go in straight and then give false readings...also dont get confures with Imperial and US measurements
8.5lit....15 imperial pints.....18 US pints
Steve
69 S2 2+2 (just sold) & Building a C type replica

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

chrisfell
Posts: 1259
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:52 am
Location: Salisbury
St Lucia

#4 Re: Series 1.5 oil level and engine gearbox height and mounting

Post by chrisfell » Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:24 pm

I think that from the bottom of the felt pad to the tip of the dipstick should be 10". Any more and you will underfill, any less overfill.
Chris '67 S1 2+2

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

abowie
Posts: 3110
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:15 pm
Location: Australia
Contact:
Australia

#5 Re: Series 1.5 oil level and engine gearbox height and mounting

Post by abowie » Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:47 am

8.5l; I use 9l if the oil filter is new and empty.
Andrew.
881824, 1E21538. 889457..oops. Jezza the V12 XJS race car.
http://www.projectetype.com/index.php/the-blog.html
Adelaide, Australia

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


christopher storey
Posts: 5166
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:07 pm
Location: cheshire , england
Great Britain

#6 Re: Series 1.5 oil level and engine gearbox height and mounting

Post by christopher storey » Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:00 am

Mark Gordon wrote:No, the engine should be pretty close to level. The engine requires 2 1/4 gallons for a fill, so it sounds like you're right on the money at 2 gallons plus 1 or 2 pints. Mark or make a note of the level indicated on your dipstick and "stick" with that. (I know, bad pun.)
Mark : I'm afraid there is a dangerous confusion arising here. You are quoting US measures, whereas the Imperial measures are 14.5 pints including filter . Perhaps it is best to work in litres for this so that to fill requires 8.25 litres

I think the probability is that the collar on the dipstick has moved - either that or it is the wrong stick which should have E engraved near the bottom

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

mgcjag
Moderator
Posts: 6207
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:15 pm
Location: Ludlow Shropshire
Great Britain

#7 Re: Series 1.5 oil level and engine gearbox height and mounting

Post by mgcjag » Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:12 am

Well tbats all very interesting...4 different people give 4 different answers......if i were you i would look in tbe Jaguar service manual it gives the quantity in Lt, Imp, and US measurements...after all thats what its for :bigrin:
Steve
69 S2 2+2 (just sold) & Building a C type replica

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


christopher storey
Posts: 5166
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:07 pm
Location: cheshire , england
Great Britain

#8 Re: Series 1.5 oil level and engine gearbox height and mounting

Post by christopher storey » Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:39 am

Steve : the figures you gave ( and indeed Mark's using US measures ) are the ones in the manual on a refill . If, however, you go on the E type seminars run by the JEC, Dave Marks ( who I think is probably the most knowledgeable man alive on maintenance of these cars ) insists that to avoid overfilling, no more than 14.5 pints should be inserted. Part of the trouble is that on a refill you never get all the old oil out

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

mgcjag
Moderator
Posts: 6207
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:15 pm
Location: Ludlow Shropshire
Great Britain

#9 Re: Series 1.5 oil level and engine gearbox height and mounting

Post by mgcjag » Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:58 pm

Hi Christopher i accept your point...especially if you didnt have it on level ground or warmed it up first....but then most of us know the level mark on our dipstick.......so on a newly rebuilt engine what is tne engine capacity.....a bit more than the 14.5 Imp pints......
Steve
69 S2 2+2 (just sold) & Building a C type replica

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


christopher storey
Posts: 5166
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:07 pm
Location: cheshire , england
Great Britain

#10 Re: Series 1.5 oil level and engine gearbox height and mounting

Post by christopher storey » Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:54 pm

Steve : the short answer is I don't know. There is no doubt that to fill filter , the crankshaft passages , the oil pump and all the galleries and the wells under the camshafts takes quite a lot of oil - perhaps a pint or more - on the engines I have rebuilt I use a garden sprayer plugged into the gallery on the right side of the engine to make sure that all the pressure side is filled before the engine is ever turned over , and I would say that this takes the best part of a pint . After that I use Dave Marks's instructions, and fill to no more than 14.5 pints in total including what I've squirted in. I think that a small underfill is not critical given the enormous quantity ( by modern standards ) of oil that the XK takes , and the consensus of the engine gurus such as Colin Ford and Dave Marks seems to be that a small underfill is infinitely preferable to the overfill which sometimes happens

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

Duckham
Posts: 103
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:07 am
Great Britain

#11 Re: Series 1.5 oil level and engine gearbox height and mounting

Post by Duckham » Mon Nov 07, 2016 4:26 pm

>a small underfill is infinitely preferable to the overfill

What is the thinking there, Chris?
I have heard that underfill will reduce oil consumption but am not clear about the mechanism. Or is it to avoid foaming of the oil if the crank is touching the oil?

If I fill my engine with the right volume it shows half full according to the dipstick, btw, so it would be very easy to overfill. I must try another dipstick at some point and see if that is the cause.
Joe
1963 3.8 OTS

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar

chrisfell
Posts: 1259
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:52 am
Location: Salisbury
St Lucia

#12 Re: Series 1.5 oil level and engine gearbox height and mounti

Post by chrisfell » Mon Nov 07, 2016 6:32 pm

This is my experience, YMMV.

I think the XK engine is highly tolerant high or low oil levels.
A 3.8 I know of was run for a considerable distance with NO oil showing on its dipstick. Revs kept low, oil pressure was stable until the cause of a leak was found and fixed and fresh oil poured in. It took almost a gallon, after which the engine ran sweetly smoothly and quietly, for the next 1,000 miles.
I always over fill my sump, not by much, just a few millimetres over the hatched marks on the dipstick. Maybe a pint, maybe a litre too much. Oil consumption doesn't increase until the level is returned to normal. It doesn't pour out of seals, it doesn't get burnt and blow out of the exhaust.
Chris '67 S1 2+2

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


christopher storey
Posts: 5166
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:07 pm
Location: cheshire , england
Great Britain

#13 Re: Series 1.5 oil level and engine gearbox height and mounting

Post by christopher storey » Mon Nov 07, 2016 6:52 pm

Joe : I think that crankcase breathing lies behind the " don't overfill" philosophy. As you probably know , the XKs are a bit problematic with breathing , and it can lead as I understand it to crankcase compression and oil being forced out . I think that David ( Heuer) has done some research on this and as a result has fitted modified dual breathers to his cars . Also, and associated with this, being a long stroke engine even by 1940s standards , and very much so by 1960s standards , then particularly with the rpm they can reach, there is a great deal of pumping going on in the crankcase

Funnily enough, I have never had a problem with crankcase compression on my Jaguars, but I did have considerable trouble with it on one of the Triumph 2.5 PIs I had in the early 70s , when it would blow several pints of oil out in a short space of time . Although it was slightly shorter strok at IIRC about 95mm, the stroke to bore ratio of the Triumph was about the same as the XK

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


Topic author
French Collection
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:21 pm
Location: Aix-en-provence, France
Ireland

#14 Re: Series 1.5 oil level and engine gearbox height and mounting

Post by French Collection » Sat Nov 12, 2016 3:58 pm

Thanks for all the replies.

I cannot find any problem with the engine / gearbox mountings so I am going to leave that alone.

I have spent this weekend fitting a Rob Beere torsion bar adjusting kit and have now got the front end of the car to the correct height. It was about 20mm low before. That should help the dipstick reading.

When I filled the engine with oil it was after a rebuild so there engine was completely empty. That might explain 1 pint above the info in the manual. So I will now drain the oil and measure 14.5 pints in and calibrate my dipstick on that basis. Don't worry, I 'won't get confused between Imperial and US pints. Will update when I have done that.

My dipstick is stamped 'E', so is the correct one.

Thanks again. :thankyouyellow:
French Collection
1968 E-type 4.2 roadster
1975 XJC
1976 Triumph Stag

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links


Topic author
French Collection
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:21 pm
Location: Aix-en-provence, France
Ireland

#15 Re: Series 1.5 oil level and engine gearbox height and mounting

Post by French Collection » Sun Nov 13, 2016 6:23 pm

Drained the oil (without removing filter) today and filled it with 8l. .
The oil level comes up to the bottom of the hatched marking on the dipstick, so one way or the other I think I am on safe ground.
French Collection
1968 E-type 4.2 roadster
1975 XJC
1976 Triumph Stag

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic