Painting the bonnet inside and engine frames - process?

[Steve1967]

Hello again, progress is moving on with my car. I have now repaired/stripped/and primed the bonnet and fitted it to the car with its new engine frames to the point that, (after months of work) I am happy with the shut lines and everything else. The next part of the plan is to dismantle it again and remove the engine frames so that I can paint to finished colour the underside of the bonnet, the engine frames and bulkhead. The outside of the car will be painted professionally.

Unfortunately I am unsure of what order to do things. I need to apply stoneguard to the panels that make up the inner front wheel arches but I feel this would be better done when the bonnet is assembled. Further more in the "factory fit" pictures it seems to be a little unclear if the bolts holding the bonnet together should be painted or not. Most look painted but there is a pic of a very nice red car from the outside showing the bolt in the front wheel arch clearly in zinc. I cant find this now, I may have seen it somewhere else, but I have seen other cars with bright zinc nuts and bolts holding the bonnet together - thoughts?

The easiest way would be to paint everything in pieces, except the inner faces of the front wheel arches, reassemble and then stoneguard the wheel arches and paint these afterwards. I feel it would be very difficult to properly paint the inside of the nose cone with the bonnet assembled, so this would help this...... but what about all the unpainted bolts? Do you go around with a modelling brush afterwards?

What is the usual method of doing this as I have no idea!!

It's a 1967 4.2 roadster 1E16058

Thank you in advance, I will really value your input!

A picture paints a thousand words so I've attached a few pictures showing the Monocoque Bodyworks series one headlamp flanges all fitted (it was a series 1.5 with open headlights) and to show the general state of play today.

Best regards

Steve

[JerryL770]

From what I have seen, bonnets are painted fully assembled. If you take yours apart now that you have got your shut lines perfect, chances are you will have to go through all that pain again and may not achieve such a good fit.

If, like me, you have some concern at the amount of protection the wing/bonnet centre section joints get when painted assembled, then maybe apply finish colour to these seams before assembly. . . . too late!!

I think the gluing together of the bonnet also needs to be done before painting.

The only unpainted bolts under my bonnet are the ones holding on the plastic air duct to the heater.

[Steve1967]

Thanks Jerome, you're right! It is too late and I should have painted all the flanges before I started. No matter, we are where we are!

So for the nose cone, you paint that by just getting in there do you? I feel that there would be areas that I would struggle to get to. I suppose runs don't matter too much there so you can go over things with a bit more enthusiasm than elsewhere.

One other thing..... my new engine frames (from Robeys) are a matt black primer, but they have flaked a bit by the brazing patches.

Can this primer be rubbed down and overpainted or should it be removed? I've tried thinner on it, which does get it off but it's a fight and messy.

Thanks!

Steve

[politeperson]

I would paint what you've got assembled if it fits definitely!

I have done it both ways. I think from the factory the frames were painted once they were on the car as the bolts are all painted.

The last bonnet I did was already assembled. So I painted it as assembled with old screws then afterwards changed the hardware. Here is one I did a while ago that was painted assembled.



Who cares about painting parts of the bonnet you cant see? As long as they have some paint on them. It is hardly likely to rust, being a molly coddled, 3,000 mile a year non winter driving car (probably). You can waxoil quite alot of it once the external paint has been done for rust protection, just not above the engine!

The most likely damage you will get to a bonnet will be heat damage from the exhaust manifolds, so try not to build up the filler too close to the air vents, otherwise it might all bubble off.

I would invert the assembled bonnet, mask and Gravitex the wheel arches, prime the whole underside in one, then paint it, then swap the screws and bolts one by one if you want that kind of look. I can see no advantage in disassembling it.

As for the frames, whilst I prefer painting them off, if you have set the bonnet I would paint them on- as the factory did. You will not get the same bonnet hinge point I guarantee! You can always change the hardware afterwords bolt by bolt if you want.



With regards to the black and the flaking, I would scotch down the frames in situ the something like a U-Pol panel wipe then blow it of with an air gun then prime. As you wipe the frames you will see much of the black come off as it is very thin. You need to really put the paint on slowly to avoid runs on the frames, as you have to shoot the paint from all angles.

James

[265bhp]

Remove the cheap black primer from Robey’s....”if it comes off with thinners it is clearly no good.”....so said my painter, who’s opinion I trust....

[Mich7920]

[angelw]

Hello Steve,
As stated by Jerome in his Post #2, the best and only time to paint the opposing faces of the bonnet centre and wing edges is before the fit of the bonnet is made complete. Apart from having to get the fit of the bonnet back to where it was before dismantling it to paint the edges, or complete components, you will find that unevenness of the bonnet centre and wing surfaces adjacent to where they bolt together will be pulled into these surfaces when you reassemble. One would think that this would not happen, but I've seen this on practically every bonnet where the client has done most of the preliminary work and brought the car in for final paint finishing.

Paint the bonnet assembled and inundate the gap between the edges of the bonnet centre and wings with fish oil (or similar) before the chrome trim is put in place. Most of the fish oil will drain away and leave a permanent, flexible, protective film.

Regards,

Bill

[Steve1967]

Thank you all, especially James for his thoughtful response and photos.

That has been very helpful and enabled me to be clear what to do next. The bonnet is already in bits again so I will follow your advice and paint the flanges, and possibly the inner headlight areas to make sure I get paint everywhere, rebuild the bonnet and check fit, then paint everything, bolts and all as per the factory.

I'm not sure about the engine frames. It would be a lot easier to paint them where they are but (if you saw an earlier thread of mine), the plan was to build the (painted) frames around the engine, as I dont have the way with all to lift the engine sufficiently to drop it in. There were a few ideas to get around this but....

Like the bonnet I hadn't painted the mating surfaces on the frames as the assembly was intended as a trial fit. I dont think this particularly matters as there will be very little moisture in there and mostly dry mileage anyway, but the bulkhead also needs painting as it is in primer.

So...... I will have to have a think about how to get the engine in as this will dictate the way forward with the fames.

Thanks again guys. As always, a great help!

Steve

[johnetype]

Whilst it is difficult to say which area of an E type is the worst for rust - given there's so many - the bonnets definitely do rust especially at the bottom of the front apron around the mounting hinges and along the flanges between the centre and wing panels so however you choose to protect them, take extra care in these areas.

I chose to use nylon washers as spacers between the centre and wing panels as my bonnet was already suffering from corrosion at this point. Time will tell if it makes any difference.

I do not agree that the factory painted the engine frames on the body. The bolts attaching the frames to the body should be unpainted.

It would be a mistake to believe that no moisture can get between the ends of the engine frames and the bulkhead. It can and it will even in a "dry" car just due to condensation caused by temperature changes and many a bulkhead has serious corrosion behind the lower engine frame attachment. Although I admit the factory didn't, I'd recommend coating the faces with a sealant or Dynax or similar before bolting together.

Pure acetone is excellent at removing primer off anything prior to real painting.

[Jeremy]

I do not agree that the factory painted the engine frames on the body.

John, I don't know what you base that statement on. On my car the evidence suggests that is exactly what the factory did. When I took off the frames the contact faces of the flanges were bare, rusty metal, with corresponding bare rusty patches on the bulkhead, perfectly shaped and with an upstanding fillet of paint all round each bare patch. You tell me how they managed that any other way....

And yes Steve, strip off all Robeys primer. First thing TT did on my shell after they got it from Robeys rebuild was to strip it all back to bare metal and start again. Frames and all.

[oldak]

One thing not to over look is getting some sealant inside the sub frames. They all rust from the inside, so while they are off the car do something to protect them.

[politeperson]

Here is a picture I took in 1962 when I toured the factory of an E type being painted.(joking, I knicked it).

It shows an e type being painted assembled, with the frames on and the bonnet open.



I think they took the bonnet and frames after this stage though, then reassembled it!

Maybe production methods changed over the lifespan of the car?

Maybe someone knows.

[johnetype]

Pictures in Porter, The Definitive History, page 197 show the engines being assembled into frames where the ends of the frames have clearly been painted in body colour.

Photos of my own car I took when the frames were removed when it was 20 years old are not definitive although the frame to bulkhead bolt heads clearly weren't painted.

Production methods certainly did change over the lifespan of the car.

[oldak]

I noticed that when i had my bonnet apart that the areas above the long air intakes were rusted. I also noticed that one of my friend's car cane back with a beautiful paint job but really nothing on top of the air intakes. When I painted my bonnet I painted the air intakes off the car, inside and out.

[AshM]

Agreeing with Mike on treating the insides of the frames - did mine today; a most satisfying job knowing you are sealing them up for many more years service (mine are original).

I posted on here about drilling through the end plates and got some great advice (as always) but actually when I looked in more detail (i.e. at both ends of the frames!) they all had existing holes with one exception. So I only needed to drill one end plate on each frame. Emptied a can or two of Dynax in them and now leaving them for a few days before moving them again.

With regard to re-fitting the engine - I am going to do the reverse of what I did to remove it. Having put axle stands under the side frames at suspension points I removed the bonnet and picture frames and took the engine out through the front. Yes you do have to lift it a little to raise it over the front of the side frames but it's nothing like trying to squeeze it in without touching the bulkhead and/or picture frame.

Advantage is the engine came out (and will go back the same) fully built up.

Good luck!

Cheers
Ash