Do Jaguar Heritage make mistakes?

essbee · Post by **essbee** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:50 pm

Dear all, i am a newbie to this site and also to e type restoration, so please forgive the stupid questions i am likely to ask.

To that end this is possibly the first. I recently bought a 1965 Roadster from the USA. The car is supposedly completely original, however when i received the report back from Jaguar Heritage, it noted that the car according to their records is a completely different colour both inside and out. The paintwork and leather look original and it has the expected patina of age.

Is it more likely that there are indescrepancies with Jaguar Heritage when dealing with cars sold in the USA or are they generally very accurate and the car has had a very good make over?

Interestingly the colour Jag Heritage say the car was ( cream with red interior) is not listed as a standard colour option for that year on the Jaguar Database site.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Post by **1954Etype** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:59 pm

yes they do make mistakes. However, you can see if the paint is original bu checking in hard to paint parts of the car like the bulkhead where the heater flaps are and behind the dash. More difficult to prove the trim is original though.

ps what is the chassis number of your car? Mine is a 65 1E11497

Angus

Post by **Heuer** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:02 pm

In 45 years it is highly likely the car was repainted and re-trimmed. This could have been done 30+ years ago so there would be a lot of 'patina'. According to Clausager in his new book 'Factory Original E-Type' there were 2,541 S1 4.2's painted in cream (786 with red interior) so not sure where you got that information from. Some details on colours here: http://www.etypeuk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=700 ; unlikely the Jaguar record books are wrong. Try checking the chassis number on XKEData.com to see if there is any history. Incidentally changing the paint or interior will make no difference to the value - one of the interesting things about owning an E-Type, specification changes make very little difference. Take a look at Eagle or E-Type UK and you will see what I mean!

Tell us more about the cam covers -are they ribbed by any chance?

Trivia: On the subject of colours it seems only 42 S1 3.8 cars were painted BRG yet there were 1008 S1 4.2's that colour.

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:46 pm

Heuer wrote: Trivia: On the subject of colours it seems only 42 S1 3.8 cars were painted BRG yet there were 1008 S1 4.2's that colour.

They obviously didn't want to waste race-winning livery on the small-engined learner's prototypes :-)

The Devil made me write that...

vipergts · Post by **vipergts** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:04 pm

I was wondering too.

My original plates show a gearbox number that the heritage certificate doesn't agree with.

Dont get it really since my car WAS all original

norman m. macleod · Post by **norman m. macleod** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:50 am

Peter,
Tut tut....(mind you, I had a good laugh at the comment...nice bit of levity.....)
Now, having said that, can I remind you that the "race-winning livery" in the 1956 and 1957 Le Mans 24 Hrs was a gorgeous blue, that of Ecurie Ecosse, not BRG (altough a few of them trailed in a bit later.......)
My Scottish Heritage made me say that.........
Norman
Western Australia.

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:59 am

norman m. macleod wrote:I remind you that the "race-winning livery" in the 1956 and 1957 Le Mans 24 Hrs was a gorgeous blue, that of Ecurie Ecosse, not BRG (altough a few of them trailed in a bit later.......)
My Scottish Heritage made me say that.........

I could summon up my Belgian heritage and lay claim to a few minor places in Ecurie Belge yellow thnks to Frere et al but it wouldn't be worth it :-)

I am considering doing my forthcoming D as an Ecurie Belge replica though, just for a bit of variety from BRG. Trouble is, the EB D-type was a finned short nose, not a long nose like mine. Decisions decisions...

Pete

essbee · Post by **essbee** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:48 pm

Thanks to everyone for the sage advice and humor!

I suppose the next step will be to look behind the dash and see what colour is back there, as all the numbers match up perfectly.

I must say it is a tough decision on which way to go on the colour. I am repainting from bare metal anyway so cost is not a consideration. Cream matches the Heritage records, and my wife has a cream Pagoda so they would match ( wife likes that sort of thing), but i must say the car looks wonderful in red and the black leather interior has a great patina. I suppose i will let the behind dash check be the decider.

I will not be able to do that for the next couple weeks, but will post my findings.

Regarding the covers, yes they are grooved. I will post a picture on the forum as soon as I work out how to do it.

Apart from said covers, everything looks to be original.....so far!

Post by **Heuer** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:50 pm

If it helps any the most popular S1 4.2 colours were:

1. Opalescent Silver Blue - 2,724 of which 2,104 had dark blue trim
2. Cream - 2,541 of which 1,479 had black trim
3. Pale Primrose Yellow - 2,473 of which 2,384 had black trim

The S2 changed the order of things with Pale Primrose Yellow going to the top of the charts; for the S3 Silver was the most popular. So despite most people assuming Red was the all conquering choice of colour for the E-Type (my guess that was down to red being the colour of most E-Type toys and models) it clearly was not.

Go ahead and take some pictures and post them here (instruction guide: http://etypeuk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=850) and you should get a very quick assessment.

norman m. macleod · Post by **norman m. macleod** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:38 pm

Peter,
There is no decision involved...........just make it that gorgeous Flag Metallic Blue, I'll donate a couple of Scottish Flag decals if you wish, just to set it off nicely. If you go Belgian Yellow, it'll need that big green stripe down the middle of the bonnet, looked a bit ordinary, I thought....
Best regards,
Norman

vipergts · Post by **vipergts** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:09 pm

Primrose being top and near top is a real shocker.

Not a popular colour today that's for sure. I have an S1.5 in primrose and it's definitely not liked and many cars I've seen that have been colour changed used to be primrose.

Post by **Heuer** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:37 pm

OK - to continue the trivia

, least popular colours were:

S1 3.8
Imperial Maroon - 21 cars
Indigo Blue - 24
BRG - 42

S1 4.2
Daimler Silver Grey - 14
Oyster Beige - 34
Sherwood Green - 79
There were also 25 LHD cars painted "New Cherry Red" :?

S2
Warwick Grey - 43
Daimler Silver Grey - 217
Silver Grey - 286

S3
Warwick Grey - 26
Turquoise - 45
Cream aka Old English White - 90

Beyond these were 100+ cars painted in over 40 different colours including 8 in Porsche Bahama Yellow and six 3.8's in Dusty Orange (the latter given away as prizes by Estee Lauder cosmetics company to top salesmen).

vipergts · Post by **vipergts** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:26 pm

Again...quite surprising when you see BRG there

Silver grey is a colour I fancy on an S1 :?

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:07 pm

norman m. macleod wrote:Peter,
There is no decision involved...........just make it that gorgeous Flag Metallic Blue, I'll donate a couple of Scottish Flag decals if you wish, just to set it off nicely. If you go Belgian Yellow, it'll need that big green stripe down the middle of the bonnet, looked a bit ordinary, I thought....
Best regards,
Norman

My first D was a short nose close to that Ault & Wyborg shade and had prominent Ecurie Ecosse decals each side of the bulkhead. My second was dark BRG long nose and once I'd tarted it up with white Hawthorn bonnet surround and large #6 numerals it did look achingly fetching. At least I don't have to consider red to make it seem sporty :-)

Post by **Heuer** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:27 pm

vipergts wrote:Again...quite surprising when you see BRG there

Silver grey is a colour I fancy on an S1 :?

It was a standard colour on the S1 3.8 but it had the word 'Opalescent' in front of it - as in Opalescent Bronze, Opalescent Dark Blue, Opalescent Dark Green, Opalescent Golden Sand, Opalescent Gunmetal, Opalescent Maroon, Opalescent Silver Blue and Opalescent Silver Grey. They dropped the Bronze, Dark Blue and Gunmetal for the S1 4.2 for some reason, given they all seem to sell equally well. They also introduced the under-performing Opalescent Light Maroon of which only 188 were so painted.

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:09 pm

So are you saying Opalescent Silver Grey (which is my S2's original colour and was my S1.5's) is a different colour to Daimler Silver Grey? I've never heard of the latter as an E-type colour. Maybe that's the sort of clerking error they made when compiling the initial handwritten records? Maybe the O of OSG was occasionally read/written as a D?

Pete

Post by **Heuer** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:50 pm

Based on paint codes:

Daimler Silver Grey 1965 - 1968 = 25216M
Opalescent Silver Grey 1961 - 1968 = 2639M
Silver Grey (aka Silver or Light Silver) 1968 - 1974 = 3308M

Only 231 cars were painted Daimler Silver Grey but enough to mean it must have been an option rather than a trial colour. Surprised you did not spot the opportunity of telling Angus his car is "WRONG, WRONG, WRONG" Pete. Opalescent Gunmetal on a 4.2 ..................

Post by **1954Etype** » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:26 am

Ah but the colour is RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT and I go on the fact that you could order any colour combination you wanted from the factory in those days!

Post by **Heuer** » Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:04 pm

Yes but I thought Pete would have had dined out on that fact for weeks! Actually there were nine S1 4.2's originally painted Opalescent Gunmetal so you are in the clear.

DBSV8 · Post by **DBSV8** » Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:09 pm

Heuer wrote:If it helps any the most popular S1 4.2 colours were:

1. Opalescent Silver Blue - 2,724 of which 2,104 had dark blue trim.

One less now I'm afraid I checked my Heritage certificate mine was this combination , which is one of my favourite's however previous owner opted for Carmen red with black interior, still very nice but I like the blue combination

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