Motif bar and Bonnet Balance Link

andrewh · Post by **andrewh** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:12 pm

I wonder whether any kind soul with an original bonnet and motif bar could take some measurements for me please? I would like to know the total width of the original motif bar and if possible where it fits in the bonnet mouth. My new manufactured motif bar will not sit in the middle of the mouth as it is too wide. Could be my new bonnet being a bit too narrow for the bar or both. The depth back the motif bar sits from the front would be a useful dimension also. Bit too late to make any changes though!

Cgarside · Post by **Cgarside** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:14 pm

Not sure from your photo's whether you have done this, but in my experience the bumpers/over-riders and return quarters need to be built up and fitted before the motif bar can be positioned. The return quarters set the depth of the motif bar in the mouth. Also, the rubber mountings which screw in the back of the return quarters need to be fitted to attach the motif bar.
In terms of the motif bar itself, I have fitted a couple (both reproduction items) to both an original and new bonnet. In both cases I had to file material off the ends to reduce the width of the bar (probably removed around 5mm from each end) in order to achieve a satisfactory fit.
Apply masking tape to protect you paint as I suspect you will be doing many trial fits of bumpers and motif bar before you are happy with the overall fit.
Enjoy.

jag68 · Post by **jag68** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:00 am

Just happen to have an original one lying here. The overall width is 24.750". The bolt holes are 5/16" so there is a bit of slop as they go over a 1/4" bolt in the metalastic piece that holds it on. Holes on center are 24". The position of the bar relative to the front of the bonnet is fixed by the mounting, but having said that the front of the bar is about 1" back from the most forward part of the bonnet without bumpers. I can't measure this accurately because of the bumpers etc. In other words there is very little adjustment. The bar is centered on the line across the opening that runs from the fender to lower shroud join lines on either side. You could certainly grind some material off each end if your bar is too long - but that may not resolve your problem if it doesn't fit to the metalastic pieces. You need to get the complete bumper assemblies on before you start grinding (if you ever do). Good Luck

paulsco · Post by **paulsco** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:41 am

I don?t want to hijack this thread, but on mine the bobbin rubber mounts sit the motif bar about 1? further back than the cut out at the end of the bumper, which looks a bodge; is this correct for a 65?

I believe the earlier E-Types (yours) just had the motif bar bolted directly to the bumper ends with a 1/4? UNF bolt.
From memory the motif bar is longer than the opening; it sits just behind it.

Paul

andrewh · Post by **andrewh** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:03 pm

As always thanks Guys for the help and information .

So my day has just been spoilt as my new motif bar is 25 inches end to end, 0.25 wider than original, well done the remanufacturers. And to top it all my bonnet aperture is 24 inches wide. So you can see that Jaguar make their new bonnets with a mouth too small to even take an original motif bar. In spite of pre fitting the bumpers and end pieces to the bonnet ( my body builder did this) we didn't have a motif bar but assumed all was good. I am now temporarily at a loss what to do. Cut a slot in my bonnet each side, completely reshape the bonnet aperture, buy a new bonnet, do away with the motif bar, cut the ends off the bar or just go and cry in the corner. If anyone could measure the width of an original bonnet aperture at the seam between centre panel and lower valance it would certainly help. Meanwhile ideas gratefully received.

harryetype · Post by **harryetype** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:02 pm

Afternoon Mr H

I had a new bonnet centre replace a few years ago and when the car came back the motif bar was 1 inch too long. As the car was then in paint as is yours, I had to shorten the Motif Bar and re chrome it.

I never did get an answer from the body shop as to how they married the Belly pan to the Bonnet centre.

As we all know its must be just as easy to make a part correct as it is to make wrong. I guess the manufactures feel it would take the fun and challenge out of restoration.

andrewh · Post by **andrewh** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:05 pm

Ah Harry! What are you doing over there when you should be over here helping solve the problem. I don't know these remanufactured parts a re a real pain. Still looking at it , may find a fix if I think hard enough. Thanks and good to hear from you.

harryetype · Post by **harryetype** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:12 pm

This is the best of both worlds. I'm here but solving your problem there. You could take a hammer to it, as they say if in doubt give it a clout.

When I had the problem shortening was the only solution.

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:26 pm

Does anyone think E-type bonnets are/were made/assembled to modern standards of repeatability and accuracy? I doubt it somehow. 1/4" on a width of 25 inches is 1% error, on complex curves in sheet steel. Hello?

That's why the motif bar holes are at least double the width of the fixing studs - to allow for cumulative variance. FWIW, my new bar is 24 7/8ths end to end and if it was a problem I wouldn't hesitate to trim the ends and rely on the washers to hold it as normal. After all, if it's too wide to begin with it's hardly going to slide sideways out of position.

Yes, in terms of machined parts etc. we have right to expect accuracy where it's critical, but on body panels? The old advice to sort out all your brightwork BEFORE paint still applies. At the factory they probably had jigs and go/no-go gauges for all key dimensions, to be sure that as they went down the line they were all within spec and didn't build up unhelpful tolerances. People building bodies one at a time today, 'free hand', and expecting new or old parts to fit accurately, are in for a rude awakening methinks. This ain't no Camry (thank goodness).

Time you all got Series 2s. Fortunately, I'm prepared to swap. I'm all heart, me....

Pete

Post by **Heuer** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:01 pm

Andrew

You could always go for the 'high speed' look:

Always thought the E-Type was a bit goofy with those necessary over riders and badge bar. Point of note - 9600 is wearing my own Borrani wheels and tyres.

vipergts · Post by **vipergts** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:23 pm

Agreed.......Chuck it all in the Gunga Din

andrewh · Post by **andrewh** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:47 pm

Very pretty cars indeed but it must be stock for me.

I will get back to making the motif bar Fit in due course. Now I have to work out why my newly fitted balance link will not let me shut the bonnet. How simple could that be then. It stops about ten inches from closing and will not go any further . What I need is a small friend to remain under the bonnet a nd tellme what is going on

chrisvine · Post by **chrisvine** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:12 pm

Andrew,

I have a similar problem trying to work out why my bonnet wasn't closing fully. I draped some sheets of Dynaliner over the engine and radiator areas and then closed the bonnet. The rubber foam stays compressed for a sufficient time to work out where it was fouling.

Chris

288gto · Post by **288gto** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:28 pm

Hi Andrew,

I take it from the wording of your post it closed fine before the bonnet stays were fitted. Rather than a " small person " what about putting your phone on video mode and taping it to something near the stays? Only a thought,and hope you get it sorted.

Simon

Cgarside · Post by **Cgarside** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:07 pm

Andrew
Try loosening the upper and lower pairs of screws on the balance mechanism which bolts to the bonnet inner panels. Judging from the photo, the screws are at the upper end of the slots which will have the effect of preventing the bonnet closing.

andrewh · Post by **andrewh** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:43 am

I did wonder about the location of the brackets on the slots . I will try and report back. . As you say maybe leaving my camera in video mode is the answer. Clever thought!

andrewh · Post by **andrewh** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:43 am

the top arm of the balance links are fowling on the inner bonnet air ducts each side. Are they meant to hit the bonnet here , the action of which then pushes the BLink over the centre and into the downwards motion? I have filed the slots in the BLs do that I can adjust them a little more on the bonnet fixings but that still does not allow the mechanism to work. These were new Martin Robey Balance links, and again it would appear that the body restorer has not fitted them to the bonnet prior to having it all painted. As Pete says, my instructions to carry out a full prefit has obviously has not been carried out. Every time I restore a car, I always do a pre fit as things are always out at final build . Lesson here, unless I am missing something is to do it yourself to make sure! anyway, please let me know if I am missing something, but I reckon its all about the geometry on the balance links and either they are slightly incorrectly manufactured or the bonnet fixings are in slightly the wrong position.

Post by **Heuer** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:17 am

Your repro bonnet links seem to be correct - mine came from M&C Wilkinson as it was difficult to find any that were plated rather than black powder coat.

Also your bonnet springs should be black!

andrewh · Post by **andrewh** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:43 pm

Black springs? Least of my problems but thank you.

paulsco · Post by **paulsco** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:05 pm

My Bonnet links pretty much stay level as the bonnet closes.
When I first put them on the car, the rivet joints were too stiff and they weren't going through full travel, so the bonnet wouldn't close.

Could it be that the links in yours are too tight?

You can establish if this is the case by removing the springs from the links and trying the links for full movement.

Paul

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