The 'E' Type Forum

Chris Blunt · Post by **Chris Blunt** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:53 am

Once again this regulator has reared its ugly head, it think this is the third one I've fitted. I am sure the annoying flickering of the lights, head, side and even reversing lights plus the Ammeter jerking about are down to this 4TR not working as it should.
I know if can go down the route of fitting a regulator and Diodes onto the 11AC alternator but I prefer to keep the wiring original if possible, my question is whether anybody knows of a replacement 4TR that is more reliable? Thanks. Chris.

Post by **Heuer** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:39 am

Give up an fit a alternator with integrated regulator. Easy to do and will probably cost less than the price of a new 4TR: viewtopic.php?t=6668

Chris Blunt · Post by **Chris Blunt** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:11 pm

You are probably right, going the modern way of a modern Alternator is going to win in the end, however my 11AC is nearly new, maybe I'll try one more 4TR which I just had returned under warranty from SNG.
Thanks for your help

nbanks44 · Post by **nbanks44** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:00 pm

I have gone the other direction and sought out NOS units for not just a 67 E type but also a 68 Daimler sovereign and a 66 mk10.
So far this has been succesful.
A key point is that on the originals there is an adjustable potentiometer which at least I found useful in fine tuning settings.
I also had issues with aftermarket replacements.

JagWaugh · Post by **JagWaugh** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:29 am

You can get generic external regulators, some are adjustable, some not. Try a ships chandlers, or a proper auto electric shop. The Alfa Romeo 1750/2000 Giulietta uses one which is about right for the 11AC.

Chris Blunt · Post by **Chris Blunt** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:46 am

Thank you, I don't know why the new 4TRs are so
unreliable, maybe it was a bad batch.
I'll certainly check out a proper electric auto/ marine repair shop, assuming any replacement will operate on the same principle as the 4TR, or is there an electronic external option. I'll check. Chris.

Chris Blunt · Post by **Chris Blunt** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:16 am

Does anyone know what the 16RA control box does on my 65 4.2

Chris

christopher storey · Post by **christopher storey** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:06 am

Chris : I've never heard of a 16RA control box. Are you thinking of a 6RA relay which is a small aluminium case about 3cms long X 1.5 wide X 1.5 deep ? These are of differing types according to their serial number which is usually a Lucas part number 8 or 9 digits long . Where is it on your car ?

Chris Blunt · Post by **Chris Blunt** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:23 am

I have a photo which one day I need lessons how to include here.
Its definitely a Black plastic Lucas England 16RA box
SNG don't know what it does, unless it's the predecessor to the 3AW relay that controls the ignition warning light.
Chris

Post by **Heuer** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:26 am

You can do some research from the stuff in the Forum KB:
Lucas Parts Catalogue 1948-1962: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/849 ... 62Cars.pdf
Lucas Parts Catalogue 1962: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/849 ... 201962.pdf
Lucas Parts Catalogue 1965: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/849 ... 201965.pdf
Lucas Parts Catalogue 1973: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/849 ... 201973.pdf

It is for the warning light. On the alternator there is an AL terminal which operates the 16RA relay when the engine runs. You should get around 3 volts there, if not something is wrong. The warning light circuit needs to feed a small current to the alternator field + terminal to energise it and the 16RA has an internal 60 ohm resistor in parallel with the lamp to do this. It was replaced by the 3AW unit on later cars.

Chris Blunt · Post by **Chris Blunt** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:50 am

Thanks, certainly I need to check this out.
The 4TR is still fitted and working in conjunction with the 11AC alternator, the 16RA is located just above the 4TR.
Chris

christopher storey · Post by **christopher storey** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:22 pm

David ( and Chris Blunt ) : I am intrigued by David's reply. My 1965 FHC 1E 20357 has the red warning light actuated by a switch in the oil pressure gallery on the rhs of the engine block , and hitherto I have always been under the impression that this system persisted until the 3AW system was introduced

Post by **Heuer** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:22 pm

I don't think it (16RA) was fitted by the Factory though as I can't find any reference to it. This Lucas manual might help with fault finding: http://rroc.org.au/wiki/images/d/d0/Fau ... Manual.pdf

Post by **Heuer** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:33 pm

Chris

Correct - the warning light on the early 4.2's was, in effect, an oil pressure switch. They then went to the 3AW. The 16RA does a similar job and was used on Triumph Stags amongst others. Not used by Jaguar as far as I am aware but it could have been pressed into service by a PO. Personally I would return the system to stock before doing any more diagnosis.

christopher storey · Post by **christopher storey** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:34 pm

I am even more mystified. Looking for references to it, I came across it on e bay described as a voltage regulator, as a control box, and as a voltage regulator relay. I am pretty sure it is not a control box, but in fact is a relay of the W1/W2/C1/C2 type , so what it is supplying here is a puzzle. Edit : thanks, David, my post crossed with yours

Chris Blunt · Post by **Chris Blunt** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:05 pm

Yes I guess this is a later addition, there are 5 connectors one doubled, also some wires from the 4TR are routed to this erroneous black box, I'm wondering if this 16RA is doing the job of the 3AW as I cannot see the 3AW anywhere which apparently was fitted on later cars anyway.

The small ign. red light in the speedometer is in fact the oil pressure warning light, I have a larger red ignition light which will stay on until the engine is revved above 1400 rpm, at the same time the ammeter bounces into action.

When I pluck up enough courage I'll open up the 16RA and report back.. Chris.

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:37 pm

I presume we are talking about that little black box that sits to the right of the battery and cost me a lot of time and money in France, but I will not repeat the saga. However when the French finally did work out the problem and replaced the said little black box with a proper Lucas one it has been very reliable so far. Incidentally I am still running on a dynamo and positive earth. The SNG little black box that was fitted had failed and burnt out. I did get a refund on my return from France but I suspect the SNG boxes are not very reliable which is supported by the failures reported in this topic.
I am tempted to go the Alternator route and change to negative earth but will wait to see how long the Lucas little black box survives.

Chris Blunt · Post by **Chris Blunt** » Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:08 am

Having just fitted a new 11AC alternator without the built in voltage regulator I'm reticent to change it yet, I understand that there are available new alternators that look like the your old Dynamo, probably a bit pricey but maybe a way of reducing your little black box troubles.
I try and avoid old car electrics, but my current flickering of all the lights is more annoying that worrying, it's probably a bad connection. Chris

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The 'E' Type Forum

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