S1 Indicators

ALAN COCHRANE · Post by **ALAN COCHRANE** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:56 pm

Hi Everyone

The indicators on my car do not self cancel anymore. When I first bought the car in 2011 they were in. a similar state. I have since replaced the self cancelling unit with one from SNGB. This lasted for about two years before failing as well.
The plastic lugs in both cases had broken.
The indicator unit on my GT6 seems much more robust and has given no trouble in 29 years of ownership.
Has anyone else had this problem and is there an upgrade for it.

Cheers

Alan

vee eight · Post by **vee eight** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:40 pm

Alan,

I agree the plastic lugs are not very strong and do break off easily.
I have adjusted my cancelling ring so the lever only just touches the plastic lugs and puts as little pressure on them as possible. So far they have lasted for 3+ years. I am lucky that my brother is a Lucas specialist and has all the parts available to service the indicator unit. I have not seen any upgrage available.

Looking at your list of cars it seems we have similar tastes. For me, apart from the E Type, it's a TR5 and a Boxter RS 60 Spyder which I sold a while ago.
Phil

ALAN COCHRANE · Post by **ALAN COCHRANE** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:27 pm

Hi Phil

I was thinking of buying a GT6 unit and modifying it to suit the E-Type's column, if indeed this is possible. Another job on the winter to do list.

Alan

daykrolik · Post by **daykrolik** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:12 am

I know there are at least two types of Series 1 indicator control units, although I believe they are designed similarly. With care, they are not hard to rebuild and last quite well. I also, unfortunately, had bad luck with a replacement from Barratt. There is a Lucas service part called Spring Bushes, number 54325591, meant to service the indicator control. I'm not sure it addresses your problem but thought it might be of interest. Perhaps you could ask the Lucas technician about it. Good luck.

ALAN COCHRANE · Post by **ALAN COCHRANE** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:59 pm

There's at least one of these repair kits on sale in Ebay. It may (or may not) be the solution to my problem. But I see it includes a new plastic assembly which I am needing to replace.
I need to have another good look at the column assembly and see where these bushes actually fit.

Cheers

Alan

daykrolik · Post by **daykrolik** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:24 pm

I'm getting increasingly curious and wondering if your indicator control could be different than those I am familiar with. What plastic lugs are you referring to, the ones that anchor the small coil springs? Attached is a picture of my unit when I began rebuilding it this spring. (Notice I had to replace one of the springs.) Is this the same as yours? I'm wondering how the Lucas kit applies to this unit unless the plastic arms on the replacement are meant to replace the "long" metal springs.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pev5toa9uil5rfq/136.JPG?dl=0

daykrolik · Post by **daykrolik** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:41 pm

Here is a picture of the Lucas 54325591 " kit." It appears that the plastic arms are meant to handle the canceling function. I'm not sure this kit applies to my indicator control, since I have never needed to try it, but it may work for yours.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/douigopd1d1ik ... 1.JPG?dl=0

Post by **Heuer** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:12 pm

On the S1 3.8 and 4.2 cars the self-cancelling is done by #C16451 "Striker for return of direction indicator to neutral position":

ALAN COCHRANE · Post by **ALAN COCHRANE** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:59 pm

Hi Daykrolik(sorry don't know your name)

The black plastic assembly is a direct replacement for mine except it's white.
The legs engage with the lug on the cancelling ring and rely on the flexibility of the plastic to act in place of the springs.
Where does the assembly you have shown come from? It looks very similar to the one fitted to my GT6 and looks far superior to the one fitted to my E-Type.

Cheers

Alan

daykrolik · Post by **daykrolik** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:58 pm

That's interesting, Alan. This was I believe the original unit on my '67 OTS number 1E15388. It is virtually identical in operational design to the control on my 1959 XK 150. Barratt sells C25254 and C25256 for the Series 1. I have seen them both because I incorrectly bought the 25254 and needed to return it for the 25256. They are similar in design and look like the picture I posted. However the 25256 mount surrounds the column while the 25254 is a semi circle like the one depicted in the parts manual. I do not purport to be an expert ? is it possible your car has a later replacement unit?
Best regards,
Day Krolik

ALAN COCHRANE · Post by **ALAN COCHRANE** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:06 pm

Day

My self cancelling unit was original to the car when I bought it. The cancelling ring is the same as the one shown in David's exploded diagram.
The body fits half way round the column.
I would certainly buy the C25254 unit if it is similar to the one you've shown. Does anyone know if this unit will fit my car without any modification to the cancelling ring and have a photo of the operating mech as well?
Most of the online images show the back of the unit only.

Cheers

Alan

daykrolik · Post by **daykrolik** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:36 pm

My steering column has the item numbered 30 in David's diagram. It is attached to the steering column, rotates with the column and engages with, positions and rotates the white nylon ring in my photo, which performs the cancellation function. Could you post a picture of your unit, Alan? I'm having trouble visualizing it and still wonder how a different unit from C25254 (correct according to the parts manual) or C25256 (according to some correct for 1967) could be original to your car. Perhaps the 54325591 service kit was installed by a previous owner?? I'd like to be able to opine that you could fit a C25254 or C25256; I'm just not entirely sure. On top of that, the replacement C25256 I got from Barratt looked very nice and exactly like my photo, but failed in a couple weeks. I brought it to their attention and returned the item but don't know exactly how they have addressed the issue. I decided to rebuild my original unit, by cleaning it and replacing the one broken coil spring, and it has been working nicely. Perhaps if you call the folks at Barratt they can give you some additional guidance.

ALAN COCHRANE · Post by **ALAN COCHRANE** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 6:32 pm

Day

Thanks for the PM

Here's a photo of my self cancelling unit:-
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p4xpqpatzgw06 ... e.jpg?dl=0

I think I'll go for the C25254 option. Just to confirm this fits half way around the steering column and is attached by two screws at the 12 & 6 o'clock positions.

Cheers

Alan

daykrolik · Post by **daykrolik** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 7:03 pm

Wow, Alan, it is an entirely different unit. I picked up the Lucas repair kit a while ago, when it was advertised as repairing the Series 1 units. I don't think it will fit my controller but was meant for one like yours. In any event, if your inner upper steering column looks like the diagram David posted and your outer column has mounting holes right at 12 and 6, it's a decent guess the C25254 would work. Perhaps you might double check to see if the parts manual lists two outer steering columns, but I doubt it. If you ask the folks at Barratt for advice, and the C25254 does not fit, I hope you could return it. Now I had the dashboard indicator light contacts on my new Barratt C25256 go awry (the exterior turn signals still worked). But I don't think, if you have a similar problem, it could not be repaired with a little adjustment. It was just easier for me to rebuild my original unit, which still worked nicely despite the one missing coil spring.
Good luck and best regards,
Day

ALAN COCHRANE · Post by **ALAN COCHRANE** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:41 am

Well I've taken the plunge and bought the indicator unit C25254. Hopefully this will solve the lack of self cancelling I've been experiencing.
As you can see from the image I posted the plastic lugs hadn't broken as I'd first suspected. What was actually happening was the cancelling ring was bending the lugs back on themselves without actually returning the indicator to the centre position. No amount of adjusting was able to overcome this. Even when I first fitted this unit the self cancelling action was less than perfect.
I'll report back once I've fitted the replacement. Hopefully I'll be able to recommend this as the preferred choice over the"plastic" version.

Cheers

Alan

Post by **Heuer** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:22 pm

The repro units bear no resemblance to the originals which had two coil spring operated tear shaped 'fingers' ehich engaged with the metal trip lever on the column.

ALAN COCHRANE · Post by **ALAN COCHRANE** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:18 pm

David

Are the repro units the same as the one I've shown in my earlier post? If so I'll cancel the order.

Post by **Heuer** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:47 pm

Yes. Originals are similar to the one daykrolik posted a photo of.

daykrolik · Post by **daykrolik** » Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:16 pm

I'm getting a little confused as to whether we are all in sync here. The picture I posted is of my original unit. The metal finger, number 30 in the diagram that David posted, locates the white plastic ring which then , in turn, rotates with the inner steering column and contacts the two metal slivers with the coil springs attached to their "outboard" ends to " cancel" the indicators. The repros I got from Barratt were of the same design and therefore similar at least to my original per the photo I posted.

ALAN COCHRANE · Post by **ALAN COCHRANE** » Sun Nov 01, 2015 11:18 am

Day/David

Can we just confirm C25254 supplied by SNGB has the metal flippers and springs not the plastic wishbone arrangement please. I'm getting a bit confused myself.

A phone call to them on Monday morning seems to be the only way to confirm which is the case.

Alan

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