Wider Wheels for the S1

[Heuer]

Good to hear as the XWX were going to be my next set of tyres!

Don't forget to keep one of the 5" wheels for the spare.

[Heuer]

My car is currently with CMC for service work and they found all four MWS 6" competition SS wheels to have loose spokes - indeed almost every outer spoke! The wheels are eight years old, have done 18,000 miles and will have to go back to MWS to have them reset.

Worth checking the spokes regularly as it is easy to tighten up the odd one but once they all start to come undone it is a factory re-furbishment job.

David

[Car-Nut]

David,

So what is a refurb going to cost?

Clive

[Heuer]

No idea - MWS are looking at them next week and will come back with a plan of action.

David

[Car-Nut]

I suppose one refurb in 18yrs isnt bad ....

Is that how long you have owned the car

[Heuer]

Owned the car since it was 'built' in 1999 and have done 18,000 miles since. I am a bit perturbed by the spokes coming loose - seems putting so many miles on them is not good! Hence the Borrani recommendation posted elsewhere.

David

[Car-Nut]

Owned the car since it was 'built' in 1999 - Hence the Borrani recommendation .

David

Afraid youre have to elaborate a bit.....

[Heuer]

Recommendation from Longstone Tyres - the spokes do not come loose on the Borranis no matter how much you use them. The ultimate wire wheel, they say.

[Heuer]

Decided to bite the bullet and visit Longstone Tyres to discuss new rubber. As my car has 6" wheels (with 205/65 P6000's fitted) the choice was between Michelin XWS 205/70's or return to the original Michelin 185VR XVS. The latter will fit anything between 5" and 6" wide wheels although they get firmer as the width increases due to tyre wall distortion.

The XWS seemed like a good option as it is fitted to the S3 cars. Dougal at Longstone was quite insistent that without power steering the XWS tyres, whilst better than the Pirelli's, did not suit the S1. The XVS though has an asymmetrical tread which was designed to improve high speed straight line stability and cornering of the S1. The best of all worlds would be to return to the combination Jaguar intended - 5" wheels with 185 XVS's. After much discussion he offered to prove the point by fitting a new set of XVS tyres on 5" rims to the car and going out for a blast.

What a revelation! The car was transformed with perfect weight to the steering, smooth ride and exquisite handling. For the first time ever I have been able to drift the car around corners, hang the tail out at will and steer on the throttle. It also made the E-Type 'shrink' around me giving more confidence to use all of the road. A veritable hoot to play with and clearly as Jaguar intended. Decision made in 15 minutes and having traveled back on them I would never return to the wide low profile ones, ruins the car.

Pictures before and after:


185's on Borrani wheels



Borrani wheel up close




Oh, and he threw the Borrani's in free!

David

[andyp]

David

I've been banging on about skinny tires and balance and drifting round bends throughout the "how wide can I go" threads. I'm really pleased that you took the plunge.

You can now get back to some proper 60s motoring. It's far more rewarding than just relying on grip.

I bet you start making a list of your favourite roundabouts.

Happy motoring

Andy

[Car-Nut]

David,

Your car looks good a credit to you :)

I see also you have a petrol pump a guy I visited to veiw an E - Type the guy in Exeter I wont name him...

He had about 12 of these in the garage with his cars...

Dont quite think my wife would go for one of these on the drive, she couldnt believe it when I widened the drive so she didnt park near my Tuscan but Id rather be safe than sorry the way she parks on the drive

Just as well she doesnt read the posts on here

[Heuer]

Clive

My wife bought me the petrol pump for Christmas - I think she was running out of ideas for presents but this was a good one!

David

[Heuer]

David

I've been banging on about skinny tires and balance and drifting round bends throughout the "how wide can I go" threads. I'm really pleased that you took the plunge.

You can now get back to some proper 60s motoring. It's far more rewarding than just relying on grip.

I bet you start making a list of your favourite roundabouts.

Happy motoring

Andy

Andy

Every roundabout is a voyage of discovery and the best are added to my list, as you predicted. Not sure the rears will last long though at this rate.

As for looks, which seems to be everyone's bugbear, the car is a lot better visually as the higher profile rubber fills the arches. It did look slightly odd with the 205/65's hence I lowered the suspension to compensate. This brought other troubles apart from the inevitable grounding on uneven roads - locking front brakes being one. This is what it looked like, butch but compromised:



Factory ride height has been resumed. From the front and rear the tyres do seem slightly skinny (even my wife commented) but the tread pattern makes up for it. The P6000 modern 'designer' treads looked stupid on the car. Longstone called the wide wheels and matching tyres the "70's Disco look".

What really embarrasses me was I thought the car handled well before and I resisted change, listening to the 'experts' rather than trusting Norman Dewis. Odd really as my 993 is one of only two left in the country still fitted with the original 16" wheels. When they delivered it was shod with 18" 'Turbo' alloys and was both dangerous and slower on any country road compared with the 16". I visited Weissach and spoke to the Porsche development engineers and they said the car was designed, built, tested and was faster through corners on 16" wheels. The bigger wheels were a marketing scam - all cars delivered with 16" wheels, salesman convinces customer bigger is butch and they buy a new set of wheels. The 16" 'slave' wheels were then returned to the factory ready for the next mug. Took the dealer three weeks to find an original set of 16" wheels but it transformed the car from difficult diva to sensual goddess. My wife has a simple test - if her boobs jiggle the handling is wrong!

David

[Moeregaard]

Some of you guys are going to be in soooo much trouble if and when your wives read this stuff! Any woman who allows petrol-station memorabilia to reside outside the garage is a keeper.

Now--back to wheels and tires. In the 1980s, the 185-15 rubber fitted to E-Types became scarce and/or expensive here in the states. Being cheap by nature, I asked my tire guy (former E-Type owner) what his recommendations would be. We ended up with a 215/75-15 Quantum (Brazilian Pirelli) that was compatible with the five-inch wheels and seemed to work well on a drive 'round the block.

This turned out to be a mistake. These tires rubbed on the rear snubbers in turns, rubbed on the front mudguards at full lock, and gave the car a nervous feel on the road. When I took the car off the road for restoration in 1991, I installed a new set of 5 X 15-inch Dayton wheels and a set of 185-15 Avons from British Wire Wheel in California.

In my book, Jaguar got it right the first time around.

[andyp]

David

I think the problem is that without a benchmark it is impossible to know how your car 'could' handle. The disappointing thing is that the advice from the trade isn't better. Clearly XKE 884 has been rebuilt to a very high standard by people that really know what they are about. It's a pity that at some point along the line somebody wasn't a bit more forthcoming regarding tyres and wheels. I imagine that thinking in the trade gets steered by customer demand with most owners seeming to want as much rubber as possible under the arches.

It's up to us to stick our 5 cents in whenever the subject is raised.

Happy fingertip motoring

Andy

[MarkE]

I'm feeling unsettled now!!

As a non-engineer type who knows that he doesn't know better, I'm certain that Jaguar had it right in the first place. I've been arguing originality for the Lotus Elan for 30 years now....that is the sort of car that attracts folks who think they know better!

I don't want extra rubber for extra grip, I just want to fill out those wheel arches. Now I'm not so sure. I had figured that it wouldn't make a big difference on a car as heavy as the E type, but it looks like my justification may be a little simplistic.

On the plus side I have had a natter with Eric Suffolk, who confirms that a re-trim for my coupe will be pretty much the same price as for an OTS...so at least I have a way ahead on that front.

Now David, you could make my decision simple...do you want to sell those 6 inch wheels / tyres? At least I could try out the big ones first!!

Mark

[Heuer]

Mark

The MWS 6" competition chrome wires complete with P6000 tyres will indeed be for sale (was going to put them on eBay). Tyres have 5mm (front pair) 3.5mm (rear pair) of tread. Never been repaired, no cuts or other damage, have tubes fitted and newly balanced. The wheels have just been serviced by MWS at a cost of ?100 + VAT each. Polished, trued, set for dish and offset - basically they are like new.

David

[Heuer]

Here is a comparison between a 5" fitted with Dunlop 185 SP Sport tyres and a 6" wheel fitted with Pirelli P6000 205/65's for anyone interested in the differences. The 185 is about an inch taller.


Left hand wheel is a flat hub ('67 cars onwards), right hand is 'curly' hub (pre '67 cars).



Interestingly the 6" wheel with rubber weighs 22kg, the 5" weighs 21kg. I would have thought the difference would have been greater.

David

[Heuer]

To complete the set here are pictures of the 5" Borrani with Michelin XVS 185 VR alongside the 6" MWS with P6000 205/65:



The Borrani has a chrome forged steel hub, chromed spokes and alloy rim. It weighs 17.5kg with tyre compared to the MWS's 22kg - so the car is about 40lbs lighter where it counts, unsprung mass. The Borrani spokes are thinner at 3.76mm compared to the MWS 4.36mm and shaped differently. Build quality of the Borrani is superb - almost jewel like.



The Michelin tyres are from the XAS series (XVS 185VR15), an asymmetrical design with the widest groove (right in picture) always being on the outside. Michelin claim excellent straight line stability coupled with excellent cornering, something I can testify to. Very good tyres that suit the E-Type. The Michelin 185's will fit on 5, 5.5 or 6 inch wheels and well worth the money.

David

[Heuer]

Just been playing with tyre pressures and I have found the E-Type to be as sensitive as a 911 to change.

With the 205/65's and heading for France I decided to up the pressures from 34psi to 38 psi for high speed running. Big mistake! Within a few miles I found the car to be unstable, bouncy and jittery under braking. I pulled over and let some air out to get back to the original 34psi and it was fine.

With the 185 XVR Michelin's I upped the pressure, based on the www.michelin-passion.com recommendations, to 34psi front and 36psi rear and went for a drive. Another disaster, the car again behaving skittishly under braking and on corners. Dropped the pressure to Jaguars recommended 32psi all around and back to joy of joy motoring.

Amazing that just a few pounds either way can have such a marked effect. On a 911 you can tell immediately if the pressures are out in the slightest when pressing on. Seems the E-Type is of a similar ilk. I am now checking tyre pressures every week.

David