Marston Radiator

[Heuer]

Eric

I take issue with the statement "You're a member of the minds made up contingent" which I think can be disproved from my constant contributions to the Forum 'Factory Fit' thread together with revisions as I find out new information. You on the other hand have so far managed to piss off just about everybody on J-L ( http://forums.jag-lovers.org/av.php?1662494o61 ) and insulted Pete Crespin (again), Bob Stevenson, Ray Livingston and George Camp amongst others. You came here with promises of "proof" yet you have produced nothing tangible other than berate anyone who disagrees with you and snipe at any imagined slight, including at our poor innocent emoticons.

It took me about 20 minutes to find those pictures on XKEdata yet in the 12 months since you have been banging on about 'flat sided brass radiators' you have managed, let me check ................................ ahh yes - bugger all of value. In fact it seems the only reason you raised this subject was one of self interest - your car has a flat sided brass radiator and you want to add heritage (maybe value?).

I now side with Pete Crespin:



Shall I make it your avatar?

[64etype]

David,

Calm down, my friend.

You've clearly had your mind made up on this one...along with each of the gentlemen who's names you mention. I can dig up plenty of posts to support that. In fact you recently urged the aftermarket radiator manufacturer to change his advertising to state that all S1 3.8 cars had the Marston stacked unit. It is disingenuous to claim you are now with Mr. Crespin on this particular item.

Yes, my car has a brass radiator. NO, I do not claim it to be original....I do not know. NO, I do not give one hoot whether it is or it isn't. I'm not a concours person, the car is modified to be a reliable driver, much as is yours. I simply have a keen interest in claims of authenticity and/or correctness and the logic that goes with those assertions. If you recall, I was very interested in the '64 boot board string last year for precisely the same reason. I do find your factory fit section extremely helpful, although there are differences among the cars posted as being original....so some of them are not. I did not "come here promising" anything.

Regarding insults, go back and look very carefully at exactly who said what, and when...in what sequence. I'm not berating anyone. If something is said that isn't supported by logic...I question it. That annoys some who are thin skinned, and they attack.

I'm sure you realize that your proposed avatar idea was suggested by my friend Mr. Crespin in his initial wise guy remark. From where I sit, the two of you administrators are purposely engaged in personal insults. I am perplexed as to why? Honestly. That said, when you take shots, I will point out that you have done so. If you feel the need to insult me further by making that cartoon my avatar...then you do whatever you think is right....

[PeterCrespin]

Eric, I respond with some trepidation, because the first post I made here contained the light-hearted closing line "Good luck in your quest Don Quixote". For that friendly closing line (presumably?) you called me 'unprofessional, unbecoming and disappointing' when actually I'm genuinely, albeit not passionately, interested to see what evidence you accumulate and whether it is sufficient to generate a rewriting of current wisdom.

Your criticism seemed a bit odd, so I offered a semi-humorous mea culpa and in return you escalated my implied charge to 'bad behaviour'. Some calming down is indeed in order Eric, but handsome is as handsome does.

Anyway, to the matter in hand, how many examples in your list of 'about 8 or 9' (which is it?) were made after August 1964?

Your repeated references to 'the minds made up' people is a bit disingenuous until/unless you produce your full evidence to the contrary. If you produce dribs and drabs of what others say, they will be assessed as dribs and drabs. Put your whole case together and it might be more impressive.

With two fully fleshed-out arguments in front of them, folks will be in a position to choose and may the best data win. Until you marshall the evidence and present it for appraisal it is perfectly OK for others to believe that all 3.8s left Browns Lane with alloy rads because that's what the public domain documentation supports almost completely, AFAIK. It seems a bit odd to castigate others for not accepting an argument for which you have yet to puish a coherent rationale:- one that not only supports your hypothesis but also explains away major data points that contradict it, such as cars still having alloy rads through to August 64?

If your 8 or 9 cars post-date the latest known alloy rad car I think you'd have a super case that the last 3.8s were given modified 4.2 brass rads and I'd be impressed. If your list of cars predate August 64 you have practically no data worth considering IMO. Especially if they mostly have crude flat-tank fabrications rather than modified pressed-tank 4.2 radiators, since we know at least one source for such easily-DIYed flat tank rads.

Pete

[64etype]

Peter,

My "unprofessional" comment was, in fact, in regard to the shot you took at Paul Skilleter, not the juvenile Don Quixote jab. The rest followed from that. Take a look at the first part of your response to my initial post.

I provided the info on the Leno car and the French auction car a year ago. If you're interested in this issue as you contend, have a look into these two for starters. I'm leisurely gathering photos and background info at the moment.

[PeterCrespin]

All I said was Paul was not infallible (statement of the obvious) and substantiated the fact with evidence from I think the book you were reading, that he had once made an error - in common with others - on 2+2 screens (statement of fact). It is perfectly OK for anyone to critique another's work and debate/iron out anomalies, somewhat as we are doing with the radiator anomalies. Paul's expertise stands unimpeached. As for me being 'juvenile' or 'jabbing' just add it to the charge sheet. :-)

Hand on heart Eric, I'm too lazy to dig out last year's info. I just asked if you had data on 8 or 9 cars and if any of them were made after August 64? I still don't know. From admittedly vague memory, Leno's car wasn't particularly late and the French car predated others that still exist with finned rads?

You said in this thread that you "... don't question that the Marston was used through '63 and likely through much of '64." That's clear enough - we agree.

You then went on to say you were "..simply curious about the late '64 production where the change over was taking place."

That also seems perfectly reasonable. But in that case what use is Leno's car or any car from the time we already agree the Marston was used? Perhaps I can combine and rephrase my two earlier questions:

Q: Does your list include any flat tank cars with a build date during the late 64 period you're interested in?