oil dipstick

Talk about the E-Type Series 1

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marc
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#1 oil dipstick

Post by marc » Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:47 pm

Hi everybody,
if you happen to have an original oil dipstick with your 3.8 E Type engine, could you please give me the exact length between the cap (without the felt ring) and the center of the knurled area of your original oil dipstick? That would be very useful to me: I just learned that the total length between cap and tip is 9 3/4" (or 247,65mm) but in fact what we need to know is where the oil level should be... The end (tip) is hopefully anyway in the oil and the overall length is not meaningful, if I understand correctly.
(exact length of the knurled area would be a bonus, thank you)

Thanks a lot and best wishes.
Marc 1963 3.8 FHC

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cactusman
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#2 Re: oil dipstick

Post by cactusman » Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:25 pm

Will do....tomorrow..other way is to drain your oil, change the filter etc. Then fill with the prescribed 15 pints/8.5 litres of oil. Leave for an hour or two to drain to the sump and see where on the dipstick the level is. Then you have the cold oil level. Hot will be a bit higher assuming the oil has had a chance to drain back to the sump.
Julian the E-type man
1962 FHC
1966 MGB....fab little car too

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chrisfell
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#3 Re: oil dipstick

Post by chrisfell » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:35 pm

marc wrote:Hi everybody,
if you happen to have an original oil dipstick with your 3.8 E Type engine, could you please give me the exact length between the cap (without the felt ring) and the center of the knurled area of your original oil dipstick? That would be very useful to me: I just learned that the total length between cap and tip is 9 3/4" (or 247,65mm) but in fact what we need to know is where the oil level should be... The end (tip) is hopefully anyway in the oil and the overall length is not meaningful, if I understand correctly.
(exact length of the knurled area would be a bonus, thank you)

Thanks a lot and best wishes.
According to a lister on JL 8 inches from the cap is th top of the hatch marks. That’s the oil level.
Chris '67 S1 2+2

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cactusman
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#4 Re: oil dipstick

Post by cactusman » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:55 pm

From cap to top of hash marks....8 and 1/16th of an inch.
From cap to mid point of hash marks...approx 8 and 3/8ths of an inch
From cap to bottom of hash marks...a fraction under 8 and 11/16ths of an inch
From cap to bottom of dip stick 9 and 3/4 inches
The hash mArks cover a length of 19/32nd of an inch.
There is also an E stamped about 9 and 7/16ths of an inch from the cap
My oil level is just about the top of the hash marks when engine is cold....

All measurements with a good quality steel rule not a cheap tape measure..
Julian the E-type man
1962 FHC
1966 MGB....fab little car too

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marc
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#5 Re: oil dipstick

Post by marc » Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:32 pm

thank you so much!
have a nice day, here we have the last sunny days with a chance for a "promenade" with the E Type, before a long winter.
Marc 1963 3.8 FHC

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marc
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#6 Re: oil dipstick

Post by marc » Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:18 pm

I checked the oil dipstick I bought not so long ago from SNG Barratt and the different marks are placed between 3,5mm (top of the hash marks) and 1mm (bottom of hash marks) higher than on Julian's (original I suppose) one. OK, maybe I should not go until the top of the marks, but it does give an idea.
But that is not the most astonishing bit of the story... I read many times here on the forum about putting the exact 8,5 liters "official amount of oil" in the engine, but my friend who renewed completely my engine (he is rebuilding E Types for many many years, knows very well the XK engine and is also doing the mechanic for people racing their E's) tells me that with the "official oil amount" he could only nearly reach the bottom of the dipstick, on any of the cars he did renew. What does that mean? All the dipsticks were completely wrong by a few cm, including the original ones? No oil radiators of course. All his own cars and his friends ones are running for years now with between 11 and 12 liters oil, without any issue, even when driven hard. It looks as the crank shaft is not bringing any air into the oil... Could you explain that to me? It is a complete mystery to us.
Marc 1963 3.8 FHC

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Gfhug
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#7 Re: oil dipstick

Post by Gfhug » Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:09 pm

FWIW and to complicate matters I have two dipsticks both 9 3/4" long
One looks like that shown by Vonkie here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11483 it has no "E" at the bottom. The cap is bell shaped to accommodate the felt washer.
Another is an S2 one with the red 'coin' at the top. This has the "E" mark at the bottom. The cap is flat bottom, so the felt washer sits below.
On both the hash marks are top at 7 7/8" - bottom at 8 5/8" from the top so different cactusman's.
When putting in the correct (official) amount of oil it has only come up to the very bottom of the hash marks. Soon drops down below that level, but then stays steady.
This for a Series 2, hence 4.2 engine.

Just throwing this in as a bit more information to muddy the waters.

Geoff
S2 FHC Light Blue
S2 OTS LHD - RHD full restoration

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paulsco
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#8 Re: oil dipstick

Post by paulsco » Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:12 am

Marc,

"he could only nearly reach the bottom of the dipstick, on any of the cars he did renew."

I have found this is the case in both my E-Type and my Jaguar 340; in fact in quite a few cars I have changed the oil in??

I just fill it to the high mark.

Paul
65 Series 1 FHC, 68 Jaguar 340

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malcolm
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#9 Re: oil dipstick

Post by malcolm » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:16 am

My dipstick, '69 series 2 4.2l, is also 9 3/4 inches long. (25cms to be precise!)
from cap to top of hash 20cms (7 7/8ths inches) and to bottom of hash 22cms, 8 5/8ths.
Overall length 25cms, 9 3/4 ins.
So mine is identical to Geoff's.
HOWEVER
unlike Geoffs, when I put in the correct amount of oil, it comes to the top of the hash marks! Go figure.

Incidentally, I have the "E" at the bottom, 1cm above the bottom for the start of the "E"
Malcolm
I only fit in a 2+2, so got one!
1969 Series 2 2+2
2009 Jaguar XF-S
2015 F Type V6 S

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marc
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#10 Re: oil dipstick

Post by marc » Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:17 pm

Thanks everybody,
I just forgot to say the sump is correct for the 3.8 engine, it has not been changed for a different type.
So the mystery is still there...
Cheers to all
Marc 1963 3.8 FHC

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cactusman
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#11 Re: oil dipstick

Post by cactusman » Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:41 pm

Here is what the owners manual says 're oil level.
"Check the oil level with the car standing on level ground otherwise a false reading will be obtained. Remove the dipstick and wipe it dry. Replace and withdraw the dipstick; if the oil level is on the knurled patch, with the engine hot or cold, no additional oil is required." It also says to leave to stand for at least a minute after switching off before doing any measuring.

The manual gives the sump capacity as 15 imperial pints or 18 us pints or 8.5 litres. So with this volume in if your level is not somewhere on the knurled bit then either your sump is bigger/deeper or your dip stick is wrong. Guessing but I think the E stamp on the stick signifies E type and not empty!!
Julian the E-type man
1962 FHC
1966 MGB....fab little car too

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marc
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#12 Re: oil dipstick

Post by marc » Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:59 pm

Yes, if it was only my car, I would be sure either the sump or the dipstick is wrong, but I am speaking about around ten cars, that's why i don't understand. And between 8.5 and 11 to 12 l. there is a big difference!
So...???
Marc 1963 3.8 FHC

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#13 Re: oil dipstick

Post by cactusman » Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:21 pm

Marc....the three volumes are identical. 8.5 litres equals 15 UK imperial pints equals 18 US pints...Exactly the same oil volume...that is the Jaguar specification so if you put that volume in it should register somewhere on the knurled section. If not then either the sump or dipstick are wrong is my guess....no matter how many engines you have tried. Am speculating but if your stick measures as above maybe a non e type or after market/competition sump has been fitted to some or all your engines that have bigger oil capacities....others will know better though....
Julian the E-type man
1962 FHC
1966 MGB....fab little car too

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34232
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#14 Re: oil dipstick

Post by 34232 » Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:31 pm

Been looking though this and other forums regarding oil quantities and dipsticks.
My car 68 S1.5 has, (I believe) a S1 XJ6 block. The original block was wrecked when a previous owner was having the car serviced and someone took it for a "test" drive and managed to throw the No 5 rod some 30 years ago. Go figure!
The current dipstick is marked 340/4.2 and has an extension tube (125mm) and is 305mm flange to full mark.
So from the bottom of the extension tube (engine block) to the full mark is 180mm.
An E-Type dipstick which sits on the engine block (?), (no long extension tube) is 8 inches or 200mm.
This a 20mm or slightly less due to the angle, difference in oil level with the S1 E-Type dipstick having the lower level.
There is lots of talk about oil quantities but that is a bit vague. What is important is the oil level relative to the block hence the crank and the baffle plate.
I suspect the the S1 E dipstick is more likely correct.

1. Does anyone here have a measurement from the sump/block flange to the correct oil level (adjacent to the dipstick) when at the full level?

2. Just to check that the blocks are the same could someone please give me the measurement from the bottom of the block to the dipstick hole.

Also there is a short extension tube that fits in there (C17522).

3. Does this short extension tube sit flush with the block or does it protrude and if so, by how much?

If anyone has the answers would be most appreciative.

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christopher storey
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#15 Re: oil dipstick

Post by christopher storey » Fri Feb 19, 2021 7:58 am

The blocks are identical . It is the sumps which differ between saloons and E types, hence the different dipsticks. Presuming you are using the correct E type sump, then the solution is fairly easy. There is nothing vague about the quantity of oil required : it is 8.5 litres /14.5 imperial pints from empty. With the engine refilled with that quantity, mark with a file or similar the level shown on the dipstick: that will then be your "full" mark for the future

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paulsco
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#16 Re: oil dipstick

Post by paulsco » Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:49 am

To answer ome of your questions, my 65 E-Type extension tube is flush with the block.
Paul
65 Series 1 FHC, 68 Jaguar 340

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34232
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#17 Re: oil dipstick

Post by 34232 » Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:15 pm

Thanks Paulsco. much appreciated.
I knocked the extension tube out and was interested to find that it doesn't sit on a "shoulder" but tapers about 40mm in. So isn't exact either, varies depending on how hard it is driven in.
Putting the E extension in, it sits about 3mm proud. Don't want to drive it too hard so will just dress it off flush with the block.

Hi Chris

"It is the sumps which differ between saloons and E types, hence the different dipsticks."

The different dipsticks means that the oil level relative to the block and crankshaft is different between the saloons and the E-Type if both sticks are correct? It is not about the different sumps.
The dipstick defines an oil level relative to the block and crank, not a quantity. The amount of oil is just the quantity required to bring the oil to the required level and the amount depends on the sump. The idea of putting in a set amount and marking the stick seems back to front to me?
It may be that both sticks are correct and means that the oil level relative to the crank sits approx 20mm higher on the saloons than the E.

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Geoff Allam
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#18 Re: oil dipstick

Post by Geoff Allam » Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:11 am

Chris is giving you the correct information. If you are using a jaguar xk engine in a six cylinder e type and have an e type sump use the recommended amount of oil as specified in the shop manual. Mark the height on your dipstick and you will be golden.
Geoff Allam
67 series1 ots under restoration
64 series 1 fhc burning lots of oil
53 xk 120 fhc sitting in garage waiting for attention

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Tom W
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#19 Re: oil dipstick

Post by Tom W » Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:50 am

Remember on the saloon cars, the engine is angled backwards, and on the E-type it sits almost level. As the dipstick is at the back of the block, the angle the engine is at affects the reading.

The sumps are also very different shapes, the volume being evenly distributed on the E, and at the back on the saloon cars. Also, the oil pump pickup point is different between the two.

So yes, the dipstick measures the height of the oil relative to the block. But it’s the sump and angle of the engine that defines the amount of oil required to get that height. Because you know the volume of oil required for an E-type, you can work backwards and mark the dipstick (assuming the car has an e-type sump)
Tom
1970 S2 FHC

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cdaubs
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#20 Re: oil dipstick

Post by cdaubs » Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:52 pm

So, I just found this posting. To help beat a dead horse....what adjustment, if any, should be made if the felt washer is in place? When I got my car from Dad, the washer wasn't there. When I did all the work on it several years ago now I replaced the missing felt washer/seal. I have wondered many times if the dip stick reads properly with the felt vs without it.

Thank you!
Charlie Daubs
'64 FHC #890093

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