Looking for advice on a Series 1

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:47 pm

Hi,

(Topic repeated from the Welcome section)

I am building up to my retirement present and looking to buy an e-type, up to 40k.
Being new I may get some of the facts wrong or sound a bit stupid but this is what I think I want?

I like the Series 1 Roadster (not the flat floor type). Having said that, are they that small to get in? I am uses to 7s, so small to me is small.

I like the model with the covered head lamps

What can I expect for that sort of money?

While I love working on cars, I am not looking to rebuild a baskets case or a body off restoration.

What should I look out for when buying a Series 1. At 40k I cannot expect everything and if some of the numbers are not matching the original then that may not matter as long as the car has no rust (I hate rust with a passion). The car needs to look nice and drive well, that is my main concern.

Looking at the Eagle website and the prices I seem to be well of the mark as to what I can expect?

Any advice would help.
_________________
Tony

Dave K · Post by **Dave K** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:52 pm

Tony,

I have a 3.8 flat floor OTS and also until recently had the use of a 4.2 OTS as well.
In my eyes there not that different to drive everyone goes on about the brakes on a 3.8, same as a 4.2 with a different bellows. They go on about the seats I have driven ine on long journeys with no ill effects.
I am 5' 6" by the way so the flat floor is a bit easier for me than someone who is 6' tall.
I love my 3.8 flat floor and would never have a 4.2, I wanted the first of the breed so thats what I got.

As for what you should expect to get for ?40K my guess is a very good driving car, you should easily be able to get a matching numbers car.

My advice and this will probably be the same from almost every member here, buy the best you can afford, view as many as can and get a member who lives local to the car you are thinking of buying to give the car the once over.
If you are a member of the JEC then have a look in the classified ads section there are no end of E-types in there for sale.

There are just too many things go into here as to what to look out for but signs of rust or bubbles on the car means get away fast you are in a for a hefty bill to sort it out.

Eagle E-types are nice cars but they are in no way run of the mill cars they have every upgrade you can think of and more plus because they carry the name Eagle they demand a hefty premium.

I'm sure you will find the right car it just takes time and patience.

Dave

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:17 pm

Dave,

Thank you for the sound advice. I will take a look at the JEC site (Does that stand for "Jaguar E type Club"?). At 5' 10" a flat floor might suit me. I will add it to the shopping list.

Thanks again

Dave K · Post by **Dave K** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:13 pm

Tony,

The JEC is the Jaguar enthusiast club the largest Jag club in the world so they say. Good mag, good discount on insurance etc.

Dave

christopher storey · Post by **christopher storey** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:28 pm

Tony : Give me a ring on 0151 342 3175 and I will try and arrange for you to sit in an E . Forget about flat floors - they are as rare as hen's teeth . At 5 feet 10 inches unless you are very peculiarly proportioned ( I am , at 6 feet with a 30 inch inside leg measurement) you will fit in almost any E

Forget also the Eagle site. They live in la la land

HarryW · Post by **HarryW** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:40 pm

Welcome Tony.
If, like me, you've long wanted (lusted after? :drool:) an E-type and find one in retirement you will not be disappointed when you get one.
In addition to the above excellent advice :agree: I'd recommend buying "The Essential Buyer's Guide - Jaguar E-type 3.8 & 4.2 litre" by Peter Crespin (Veloce Publishing) It pops up regularly on ebay and will give you plenty to think about. Trawl through past posts on the Forum - lots more advice on tap here. As for 3.8/4.2 only you can decide which you prefer. I went for better seats and gearbox and chose the 4.2 - and remember the OTS will cost you more than the FHC :throw: I went for the FHC as it is just as beautiful (in a different way) and is more practical - my daily drivers have always been estate cars (including a Reliant Scimitar GTE) :peelout:
Good luck in your search and keep us posted :read:

Echezeaux · Post by **Echezeaux** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:34 am

Why not to visit E Type UK , I am sure that they would spend some time with you showing all different models and explaining the good and bad about those cars.

Even if you need to spend money and time for a visit, at the end you will make an informed decision on the next car you see, Priceless !!
Before I bought mine I flew Glen Olsen of Jag E-Type Restoration from Melbourne over to Brisbane just to have his non emotional feeling about the car. ( Not like me ,I'm a terrible car buyer, think to much with my heart, not with my brain, or too late !! )
Not too cheap, but money well spent at the end.

Just my two cents.
Thierry

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:20 pm

Dave,

I will check out the site to see what they have. I see there is also an
E type Club. Is there view on the which club to join? The JEC or the
E type club.

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:34 pm

Christopher,
Now there is an offer not to be missed. I will give you a ring

Harry,
The bug is biting. I will check on e-bay to see if the book is available

Thierry,
At first, I thought you lived in the UK and was really impressed thinking you had flown him over from Australia. Even so from Malbourne to Brisane is still some committement. I presume he did recommend that you buy the car in the end?

Post by **Heuer** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:48 pm

As you will see Tony a definite theme is emerging here and 99% of the advice is spot on. The only thing I will take up is the issue of so called "matching numbers" cars. This, like Halloween Trick 'r Treat, has been brought over from the States and applied carte blanche to E-Type's.

The 'matching numbers' concept (engine block, rear axle, gearbox, chassis, rear axle numbers etc etc match to the original build sheet) is indeed vitally important ............................... for US muscle cars. For E-Type's it is pretty much irrelevant. When dealing with muscle cars there were so many combination's offered and so many changes in period you need to be 100% certain of what you are getting. You need to identify if your 1970 Plymouth Road Runner or 1969 Chevelle COPO 427 is genuine or a copy with modified parts and that can make the difference of many thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars.

E-Type's are pretty much E-Type's and some of the most valuable are certainly not 'matching numbers' so do not be swayed by that label. There are many more important things to consider - if the numbers match, that's nice but it should be the last thing to consider when buying.

HarryW · Post by **HarryW** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:00 pm

Tony,
As regards clubs, I joined the JEC first (the biggest) and I have no complaints about it; however, it does cover all Jaguars and the mix of articles was much like 'Jaguar World', the monthly. I switched to the E-type Club, which has a slimmer mag. but all E-type, which suits me better; my advice would be join the E-type Club :readthe book: If the funds stretch, of course, you could join both :goodidea:

Post by **Heuer** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:08 pm

I have to agree with Harry, I have been or am a member of the JEC, JDC and E-Type Club and the E-Type Club provides the best value for owners. In fact it is worth contacting them and buying the back issues - a treasure trove of information. Unfortunately the others tend to spread themselves rather thinly over all types of Jaguar.

MarkE · Post by **MarkE** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:35 am

Well Tony, if you can fit into a Seven you?ll rattle around in any E Type. I?m very jealous, because as a Lotus nut as well, the Seven is the one car I?ve always wanted, but at 6ft 5inches it will never happen. I?m restoring a Type 14 Elite currently, and am having to make some serious mods to the seat to be comfy!

At ?40k you are in dangerous territory. You will find a very good S1 OTS for that money, but there are a lot of poorly restored yet good looking cars out there to trap the unwary. For sure, you?ll have to buy privately, and make sure you know what you?re looking at before diving in. Beyond the obvious visual and testing checks, examine restoration photos and invoices for work carried out, especially looking at before and after pictures. If there isn?t any then suspect the worst.

It?s quite difficult to fully evaluate a car without putting it up on ramps and pulling out at least some of the carpets. For that reason I would suggest that if you find what you think is a good car, with perfect clearances, straight bodywork and mechanically sound, then get it checked out by a specialist. It will cost you a couple of hundred pounds, maybe more, but could save you a lot of grief. Some sort of problems will always be found, which if fairly minor will provide good negotiating ammunition.

I have to disagree with David and say that matching numbers is very important for the very best cars. For sure, if you?re going to use the car ?every day? and use it up, then it doesn?t matter at all. If you?re going to modify the car then it probably doesn?t matter either. But if you?re interested in having an original specification / as it came out of the factory car, then it makes a big difference. I had this drummed into me by my father who played with pre-war British cars in the 50s and 60s, so it?s not a recent or an American thing. The very best cars have a superb provenance, and matching numbers is all part of that. The Bugatti, Ferrari, Aston and Historic Lotus boys all get excited by it, and even the Lotus Cortina and AVO Escort owners get agitated by the subject. Bottom line?if it hasn?t got matching numbers, pay less.

And now for a slightly different thought. The S1 is riding the crest of a wave currently, and is without doubt expensive compared with the other E Types. Have you considered a S3 V12 E Type? You can get a really superb OTS car for ?40k currently, and for many people, their slightly flared wheel arches give them a more purposeful look than the S1, making up for the cheesy grille and lack of glassed in lights. With re-valved power steering, they are just as much fun to drive as the S1, and they already have the upgraded brakes, seats and cooling system that some folks seem to think are required on the S1. The V12 engine is sublime, and is bullet-proof, and can be made to be more economical than the 6 cylinder car with fuel injection. Maybe worth checking out before you make a decision.

Post by **Heuer** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:48 pm

I can see why Lotus Cortina and AVO Escort owners get in a tangle about matching numbers because it is so easy to change a standard car into one of these specials. Similarly for pre-war cars, which were mostly hand built having the correct parts is probably more than desirable.So unless you are looking at a Lightweight E or want a concours car those numbers are of little import. I had this conversation with Harry some time ago and he says although he asks about the numbers it is only 'nice to have' and does not affect the price he pays or sells a car for. Of course Mark is correct in you can use the lack of matching numbers as a bargaining chip.

JEP41 · Post by **JEP41** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:55 pm

I Have to agree with David on the matching numbers point and don't think it's that important unless planning concours showing. My own series one flat floor is a matching number car but I didn't buy it with that in mind. Reading Cat out of the Bag tells us the Jaguar's competition dept swapped engines around and various tub parts off a damaged car onto another. These cars the lightweights are the most valuable E-Types around. Almost cost as much as an Eagle E-Type

It's important to buy what you feel gives you what you want. I wanted a basket case to rebuild into a lightweight copy which I did and doing as much of the work myself was part of the enjoyment, infact as much as owning and driving it. If you are not that way inclined then it's important to find a car that has been rebuilt (as most have by now) properly and has the mods you feel important to you better brakes etc.

On the club memebership choice, I belong to the Enthusiasts Club and the E-Type Club The Enthusiasts Club was spun off the Jaguar Drivers Club in the 1980's when some disreputable members abused the Jaguar Drivers Club trust. I would suggest the E-Type Club if one club is all you want. I also own a MKII Jaguar and am building a C-Type Jaguar Copy so I remain a member of both. As the Enthusiasts Club is catering for more and more modern Jagurs dare I say Fords, I chatted to the Jaguar Drivers Club rep at their Stoneleigh stand and think I will revert back to the Jaguar Drivers Club when my Enthusiasts membership expires next time. I will stay with the E-Type club also.

MarkE · Post by **MarkE** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:30 pm

Heretics!

We should have a good old debate on originality and what that means one day, although I suspect that I will represent a very small minority on this forum!

Harry, if it make no difference, why have most of your adverts got ?original matching numbers car? in the first sentence of your descriptions?

Most of us would love to find that one owner tucked away mint car just as it came out of the factory, and surely most people would see that as preferable to a bitza car? I know that the racers and modifiers don?t care two hoots, but there are a lot who do?hence the prominence of ?matching numbers? in Harry?s (and Eagles / Coys / H&H / Barrons and every other classic car retailer) adverts for cars, no matter what they are.

Same thing goes for original colour, but then I?m moving towards the originality debate??

Post by **Heuer** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:43 pm

No problem Mark - here you go: http://www.eaglegb.com/etypes/21-jaguar ... -sale.html

Could be yours tomorrow!

About as original as you could get but would anyone dare use it and I wonder what the depreciation would be as you drove it for the first time? It is superb though with original leather and paintwork and, presumably, numbers. To me this is the only way to talk 'originality'.

I think Christopher Storey knows the history of this car.

christopher storey · Post by **christopher storey** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:15 pm

David : no , it's the gunmetal S1.5 which I know. Changed hands twice in the last two years for c 35k-40k, nothing's been done to it according to the advertisement, and having failed to sell it at the starting price of ?89,500 it's now up to ? 98,500!

MarkE · Post by **MarkE** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:26 pm

I've been lusting after that car for a while now, and yes...for me that would be perfection. You're right though, it would create a bit of a dilemma.

But it's exactly that sort of car that I aim to create with restoration. Not 'concourse' or over-restored, but just as it would have come from a main dealer in the 60s. A restoration can never be as good, because it usually looks over-done, but I keep originality as the primary aim.

We're nudging into that originality debate again!

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:59 pm

Thanks for all the help and replies. Love the debate, keep it up, shows the forum is alive and kicking. I am a bit green to join in at the moment but there are lots of thoughts and advice being shared.

I actually went to see an S1 the other day and it impressed me, but then it was only a cursory view, all the paperwork seemed to be there.

If the attachemnt below works, do you have any thoughts?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... gory=18185

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Looking for advice on a Series 1

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