The 'E' Type Forum

As my tyres are about 11 years old I think it?s time to change for new ones.

The car is equipped with Dayton wire wheels and the tyre size is 205/70 R15. Due to availability (classic Michelin are not available for the moment) I only have the choice between Vredestein Sprint Classic and Pirelli P4000.

I would be very interested in your experience with these tyres and recommendation to help me in my choice.

Keep away from the P4000's - they are cheap tyres designed for vans and ordinary cars so do not suit the E-Type at all. Best tyres are 185/15 Michelin XVX, Pirelli Cinturato or Dunlop SP. If you can't get these the Vred Classic is a reasonable alternative. Personally I would avoid the 205/70's as the lower profile means the already limited ground clearance will be reduced - think speed bumps! The wider tyre will also increase the steering weight and give a harsher ride. You will find the 185 tyres transform the car for road use with a more compliant ride, finger light steering, the ability to chuck the car around and steer on the throttle. You will not be disappointed with the 185HR15 Vredestein Classic.

David
Why would Pirelli design "van and ordinary car " tyres with 'W' and 'Z' speed ratings?

Pete

I have Pirellis (and a number of other E Type owners I know do as well). After >20k miles on them wth differing conditions (rain, fast road, track, dry cold and hot) I am more than happy with them and would replace them with more Pirellis.

Having said all that the only other tyres I have driven on are crossplys and 185 (Michelin?).

Angus

e-bygum wrote:David
Why would Pirelli design "van and ordinary car " tyres with 'W' and 'Z' speed ratings?

Pete

Pete

The Pirelli P6000 is the high performance version of the series. I ran my car on them for 5 years and they are very good indeed (ask MarkE, he still has them on his S1). Like all modern tyres they have very 'square' shoulders designed for vehicles with variable camber geometry unlike the more period 185 tyres with 'round' shoulders. This is the reason the steering weights up in corners on the E-Type with the modern profile tyres. As for why the P4000 is sold as a 'high performance tyre' with high speed ratings I think you have to look at the marketing department. Very few people will buy "low performance" tyres even for their vans no matter how cheap they are - people want to drive the dream

Next time you are at a Classic Car dealer check out what tyres they fit to their stock - invariably the P4000, and it is not because it is the best high performance tyre in the world!

I?m still not 100% convinced that the new breed of ?super? classic car tyres will make much difference to the driving or feel of the car on the road, especially when it?s a standard road car. The E Type has compliant suspension with the standard Jaguar rubbery feel, and that must be the limiting factor when approaching the limits of grip surely.

There?s also the old saying that it?s not what you?ve got but what you can do with it! My S3 has the P4000 tyres, and at a couple of track days at Donnington a few years back I thoroughly explored the limits of the car, both in the dry and in the wet. The limits of adhesion are pretty high in both the wet and dry, and given the body roll on standard suspension, any more grip and the chrome on the door handles would have been ruined.

There was only one other E Type on one of the events, a S1 with the peg drive wheels and trick everything. He got very upset every time I overtook him on the corners in a fairly lurid slide, especially as he had commented earlier that a standard road going E Type, let alone a S3, had no real place on a track.

He quietly came and looked over my car afterwards, and I spotted him examining the tyres?.I bet he bought some P4000s after that!!

My car started off with Yokohamas 225's, then P6000 225's and on to Michelin XVS 185's. Do different make/type tyres make a difference - hell yes. Whether any of them are any better than any other is down to personal preference, driving style and experience. The Yokohamas' were stunning on a dry road and lethal in the wet. The P6000's gripped and cornered like a modern sports car but the steering weighted up badly in corners. The 185's give a compliant ride and light steering but they roll in corners and slide in the dry under provocation. Your car, your choice. The only thing to consider is what you want from your E-Type ownership, but those four circles of rubber do define the driving experience.

When I started with an E 18 years ago, it came with 205/70 VR 15 from XJ6s of the era, on 6.5 inch wheels, and was horrible! You needed arms like a shot putter , the tyres fouled the wheelarches and bump stops , so that on full lock the car would tend to climb the front baffle panels , and even when you could move the steering there was no feel at all. On my OTS a couple of years later I put new Avon 185 HR 15 on and was very satisfied. A change to Vredestein 185 HR 15 on the FHC with same 6.5J wheels was a revelation , with sensitivity and lightness equal to those of the Avons . Although some people are offended by the looks of the original size 185s, dynamically they are so superior that I would not hesitate to recommend them

At the risk of joining the debate - I will quote the ever venerable Heuer in that "your car, your choice". The point is new tyres, whatever make - as long as it is a reasonable brand - will make a considerable difference over old rubber.

I cannot stress enough - however painful it may seem to people - that your tyres are the only contact point with the road. You may have 15 year old tyres with minimum wear, but try to put your thumbnail into the tread then do the same on a new tyre. The rumours are that legislation will soon enforce this upon us to limit tyre age, but I for one endorse getting rid off very old tyres.

I have recently changed my tyres - to Pirelli P4000 205/70 Z 15, from my previous Avon CR28 of the same size and section and the change was very noticable. I am completely happy with my high speed rated "van" tyres manufactured and stamped in January 2011 and maybe later I will change these to another range to appreciate an even higher level of satisfaction, but these did 700 miles to the sprint around the town at Laon over the end of May Bank Holiday weekend in France and I definately felt a difference in how far I could push the car.

I have a story about how the clutch slave cylinder failed en route and I repaired it with a 2 Euro Bicycle repair kit - but that's another story for later.

regards,

Dave

Thanks everybody for your comments and advices. I will not change the wheels and therefore I?ll stick to the 205/70 Z 15 size. I?ll go for the Vredestein, they?ll be fitted on the car Monday. I?ll post my comments after the road test. I forgot to mention that my car is now equipped with 11 years old Michelin MXV4 Energy Radial XSE, size 205/70 R15, I will not regret them....
Concerning the Pirelli P4000: I already owned these tyres on an Aston Martin and frankly I do not have much to complain about them although I preferred the original Avon on the wet.

The Vreds (made week 12 2011) are finally on the car and the few kilometers I have driven confirm the superiority of these tyres over my old Michelin. I will drive 1500 kilometers in a few days so I will be able to express a more objective judgment?we?ll see. The steering is light and the car easy to drive.
I have read somewhere that these tyres come with ?distortion in the sidewalls ?so I was a bit anxious about what I could finally have on my wheels. As you will notice looking at the picture hereunder the sidewalls are absolutely perfect. Would the tyres come with such a default my mechanic would have not put them on my car (as any responsible professional I guess) and returned them to the wholesaler/ factory immediately. Anyway I would not have accepted them.

I agree with this assessment, I purchased Vreds for my MK2 about a year ago after talking to Chris Keith Lucas who has been racing his XK 120 on them for some time and told me they were excellent. To date mine (205-70-15's) have been very good with no evidence of sidewall bulging :D

I have just done a nice tour of about 1500 kilometres (900 miles) on various types of roads. I confirm that I'm very happy with these tyres. The last test will be driving under the rain which I haven't got the chance (?) to perform yet. Tyre pressure setting: 2,4 bar front, 2,3 bar rear. Wheels: Dayton DC455 15x6. Car: series I FHC 1967.

What a gorgeous car! Of course, all E Types are gorgeous, but yours is exceptional!
Mark

Thank you so much Mark. You made my day.I found it in San Francisco. I spent 7 months to address a few things and install a few upgrades.

Mark Gordon wrote:What a gorgeous car! Of course, all E Types are gorgeous, but yours is exceptional!
Mark

Nah that's just a good photo

Seriously, lovely looking car. The S1 FHC lines are just right. You can see why it was Sir Ws' favourite!

Ok! I look forward to see pictures of your cars. Is there any place in the forum where I can see them?

stretoo wrote:Ok! I look forward to see pictures of your cars. Is there any place in the forum where I can see them?

Go to www.photobucket.com. Log on with username 'angusmoss' and password 'jaguar'.

Choose sub album 1e11497 65 OTS Restoration. There are a number of pictures of my car during the restoration.

Absolutely fantastic! Congratulation for your incredible work, the result is worth the pain. How long did it take?

stretoo wrote:Absolutely fantastic! Congratulation for your incredible work, the result is worth the pain. How long did it take?

Thank you. Probably took about 18 months (most of my spare time) but worth it in my view.