Speaker sizes

kingzetts · Post by **kingzetts** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:12 pm

Hi guys, I'm looking for some advice on loudspeakers. As purchased my car came with a pair of 6" tweeters in the centre console either side of the radio, and a pair of 6" bass speakers in the rear bulkhead where someone has cut out two holes to accommodate them, all driven by a mono AM/FM radio - not good quality at all.

I plan to replace the speakers and centre console, having already invested in having the mono AM/FM Radiomobile converted to FM + iPod interface stereo. The tweeters are clearly too big for the centre console, and my question is - what size speakers are best for the centre console location? If I can get the console speakers to work well enough I will remove the bulkhead speakers entirely and maybe even get the holes welded up, so I want to try full range speakers in the centre location.

Advice gratefully received. Cheers,
John

andyp · Post by **andyp** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:08 am

My advice - put the speaker money towards a loud exhaust and listen to that.

Andy

kingzetts · Post by **kingzetts** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:53 pm

:D Compared to my daily drive the standard E exhaust is quite melodiously loud, especially top-down....anyway I'm not personally a fan of loud exhausts on my own vehicles as I prefer to drive (and ride motorbikes) fast but with discretion

And since I'm not an audio buff the sort of money I plan to spend on speakers would not even pay for the fitting kit for a new exhaust!

Post by **Heuer** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:22 pm

John

You will have great difficulty finding a pair of speakers to fit in the centre console as they need to be no more than 2" deep. Best place to fit the speakers is in the footwells near the door hinge. There are already cut outs in the body that will take 4" speakers so fitting is quite simple. The other problem you will face is the Radiomobile has an output of about 6 watts which is nowhere near enough to drive modern car speakers which are rated at about 100 watts.

Check out the thread I started on 'Vintage look radio' which may give you some ideas. My radio has an output of 60watts/channel and drives the two Sakura 100w speakers with ease. However once the car gets above about 50mph (30mph with the hood down) I cannot hear it. Only used it for two minutes since I installed and have just about given up. Next step will be to put 4" speakers in the footwells if I can be bothered. The sound you are getting at the moment will be as good as it gets unless you ditch the Radiomobile and fit something modern. I side with Andy on this!

kingzetts · Post by **kingzetts** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:44 pm

I agree about the Radiomobile so I've already had it converted to modern internals, it now puts out 45 Watts per speaker to up to 4 speakers, with FM radio and iPod/MP3-playing capability.

I know I can put speakers in non-standard locations, and the car already has two 6" speakers in the rear bulkhead, but I would like to find some which will work in the console (probably I'll keep the rear speakers as well, at least until an opportunity arrives to have the holes in the bulkhead repaired).....I was hoping someone had found decent slim speakers which they could recommend but maybe not.

I'll keep trying for a while. I do have a very good local car audio specialist who has offered to measure up the console and radio and see if they can find decent speakers to fit, so if I'm successful I can report back.

e-bygum · Post by **e-bygum** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:27 pm

There has been quite a bit of talk on the E-type Forum of Jag Lovers about speakers which fit.
It might be worth while searching their archives.

Post by **Heuer** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:28 am

John

The problem with installing any sort of quality speaker in the centre console (apart from size) is that there is no room to put acoustic wadding or create any sort of enclosure. I speak as a h-fi buff who has designed his own speakers in the past so I thought long and hard when I had my console in bits. Originally Jaguar only supplied a single speaker in the console, on the right in RHD cars and on the left in LHD cars. This worked reasonably well with the technology of the time and the console acted as a sort of crude bass reflex cabinet. In other words sound from the front of the speaker passed into the car and out of phase sound from the rear of the speaker passed through the vacant speaker grill into the passenger compartment reinforcing the sound.

When you fit two speakers they will act against each other (more so on centre stage or mono sound) as when both speakers move backwards the air pressure will negate the movement causing distortion or low volume (two pistons moving against each other). Whoever fitted the tweeters in your centre console did the right thing. The high frequency speakers have limited cone movement, and are usually contained in their own small enclosures anyway, so it is not a problem. If you really want your system to work properly you have a number of options:

a) use the existing speaker setup, which seems to have been thought through properly
b) install 4" woofers in the footwells (they will not be seen) and install miniature tweeters at each corner of the dash/window frame
c) set your radio to mono and use a single speaker in the centre grill

kingzetts · Post by **kingzetts** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:49 am

David, that's good advice and much appreciated. I suppose one good thing about the speakers in the rear bulkhead is that they are quite close to the occupants' ears - more so than the footwells.

What would you think about footwell woofers & console tweeters driven off the "front speaker" output and a pair of full-range speakers in the bulkhead driven off the "rear speaker" output of the head unit? Improvement or overkill?

Post by **Heuer** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:07 am

John

That should work well as you are moving more air. It will improve sound quality as you will not be driving the amps to their limits and there should be sufficient volume to overcome road and engine noise. A good way forward, although fitting small tweeters at the dash top corners would be better. High frequency sound is very directional so your knees will enjoy the benefit rather than your ears. Low frequency sound is not directional which is why you can put a sub-woofer, as in many home cinema systems, just about anywhere in the room and still get the benefit.

If you are going to do the job properly I would fit woofers in the footwells, tweeters on the dash (they are only the size of a 50p piece and enclosed) and use the existing rears. Dump the tweeters in the centre console (you will not get stereo sound with them there) and leave it empty, fitting new grill covers if they existing ones have been damaged (SNG sell them). You may want to consider using speakers from the same manufacturer all round for ultimate sound quality - a good ICE specialist can advise.

Series 1 · Post by **Series 1** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:21 pm

I'm no expert but managed to fit 2 MB Quart 13" (or maybe 12", have to check!) speakers in my centre console. Had to build a frame inside to support them and the Alpine head unit. The speakers are quite deep but are supported slightly proud of the console. Look pretty good and sound acceptable, just lacking a bit in the loud department. I agree with the phase thing so wired them out of phase in an attempt to cure it. Couldn't tell any difference, but as I said, I'm no expert. Not exactly the quietest place to listen to music anyway! I've got a small sub I might get round to fitting in with the spare wheel sometime. Few other priorities first though!

Angus

kingzetts · Post by **kingzetts** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:24 pm

Angus, thats interesting, thanks. But do you mean 13 cm rather than inches - I don't see how you'd fit 12 inch speakers in the centre console as the sides are only 10" across the diagonal.

13cm should fit fine though.

Series 1 · Post by **Series 1** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:22 pm

Sorry, I'm a muppet! 13cms not inches! Wife says I'm always confusing the two! Overall speaker diameter is just over 13 cms, speaker cone inside is 12 cm dia. The expert in the shop I bought the head unit from said they'd never fit. I love a challenge!

kingzetts · Post by **kingzetts** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:06 pm

I reckon fitting 13cm is straightforward diameter-wise if you can handle the depth. Your solution of spacing them out slightly is a good one - I've found similar solutions mentioned on the Jaglovers forums suggested by e-bygum - using a piece of black plastic drainpipe as a spacer seems to be a favoured solution over the pond!

I'm currently replacing my rear speakers in the bulkhead behind the seats with better-quality 17cm units, I plan on seeing how they sound along with a pair of smaller ones in the console and then I can decide if I want to go to footwell woofers and console tweeters.

Post by **Heuer** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:15 pm

John

You need to remember the early S1 cars had a different console to the later ones with a smaller speaker fitting and even less depth to play with. What might work in the later cars may not work in yours.

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