The 'E' Type Forum

Well, I thought I was nearly there after 12 months of work



It started first time and, apart from a couple of dripping jubilee clips and some flames out of the right hand exhaust I was a happy boy. Then I rolled it back into the garage and noticed the puddle of oil. It looks like the front sump oil seal is leaking. I replaced the rear sump oil seal when I refitted the sump but not the front as it hadn't been leaking previously. More fool me it would seem. I found refitting the sump with the engine out a bit of a three handed job, has anyone done a front sump oil seal with the engine in place? I'm sure it's possible but right now a can of petrol and a zippo lighter seems like an easier option.

I have sensibly closed the garage door and poured a large gin & tonic.

yes it can be done (I've done it) just take your time. The gritters are out now so you don't want to drive it anyway

I'm confused. I noticed that it appears that you have a brake servo on the left side and the wipers sweep to the left which should indicate a left hand drive, but your brake and clutch fluid reservoirs are on the right which would indicate a right hand drive. Which do you have. By the way, you've done a beautiful job of restoring and polishing your engine area. Absolutely gorgeous and I'm green with envy!
Mark

Put your glasses on Mark or have another mornnig coffee . The wipers are lying to the right which is correct for RHD and the RHD pedal box is clearly visible too.

The normal 4.2 remote servo would not be visible form that angle so I assume it's a Rob Beere or similar aftermarket thing, to replace the Kelsey-Hayes jobbie on what seems to be an otherwise stock 3.8?

Agree totally with your assessment of the bling quotient. Very pretty, if you've got shares in Solvol Autosol and don't get tennis elbow.

Before i'd strip everything to reomve the timing cover, I'd clairfy if it's a leak between the sump and selal, rather than seal and crank?

Pete

I guess you're right, Pete. I'll have to stop posting until I've had time to wake up. I've had to give up coffee for breakfast on workdays because it gives me the shakes which makes my patients worry! It's like, I believe Ben Franklin once said, "It is better to be silent and have others think that one is dull than to open one's mouth and remove all doubts."

Mark

Mark Gordon wrote:It's like, I believe Ben Franklin once said, "It is better to be silent and have others think that one is dull than to open one's mouth and remove all doubts."
Mark

It may have been Oscar Wilde but either way it has never stopped me :-)

Peter, Mark, thank you for your kind comments. Peter is, of course, absolutely correct, it is a 1964 3.8 RHD FHC. I've modified the pedal box- bellows & bracket are gone (throttle linkage now on 4.2 style bulkhead bracket). On the left side are 2 separate remote vacuum servos - front and rear. Similar to Rob Beere setup but home made. Works really well. Coopercraft alloy callipers on front.

Basically I completely stripped the car for a bare metal respray so have rebuilt it how I always wanted it. Broadspeed 5 speed gearbox, Konis all round etc.



Peter, thanks for the optimism which I need right now! I'll drop the sump and check the sump/crank seal. The (Jaguar Service) manual says only sump gaskets & rear oil seal usually need to be replaced - hence my leaving front seal. As I said, it wasn't leaking before so maybe I've put it back on badly. I hope so even though I thought I was really careful putting the sump back. I did use gasket seal which I read is not really necessary (Haynes). Anyway, I think I'm calm enough to go back out to garage and have a look...

Sorry, I'm obviously missing something here? The above reads as if you have done an engine refurb but NOT replaced the front crank seal. That can't be right surely? They are cheap as chips, come in your full gasket set and inevitably wear out over time.

By the way, your rear exhaust hanger is back to front. Maybe you've just thrown it on temporarily?

I didn't mention that I'd done an engine "refurb" anywhere in the above text, just that I'd refitted the sump. It does seem to be leaking between the sump gasket and front crank case seal so hopefully it'll be fairly straightforward.

Rear exhaust hanger refitted by guy who did respray, not exactly a major problem in the big scheme of things as it was a bit obvious when I fitted exhaust but thanks anyway.

Angus

Sorry. Your car looks brand new underneath Angus, so I assumed the engine had been removed. The thing looks so spotless under the bonnet I further assumed it had at least been dismantled, cleaned and reassembled after inspection and refreshing consumables such as seals, shells & rings etc.

I'm a great advocate of avoiding needless boring and grinding and had not assumed that level of work, but cleaning and inspecting are de riguer surely? Also, you seemed to suggest you'd done the rear crank seal, which is practically impossible without a stripdown. Probably misread that too.

Are you saying you did a bare metal repaint, fitted a five speed box etc. but didn't replace a tuppenny ha'penny crank seal and the other consumables while the engine was out? Have you cleaned the sludge traps in the crank?

Pete

Peter,

Yes, I removed the engine but no, I didn't strip or inspect anything other than remove and vapour blast the sump which was covered in peeling paint. Not sure where the rear crank seal came from and no idea what a tuppenny ha'penny crank seal is or does :D

The engine has done less than 5000 miles since a full rebuild so I'm happy with it's integrity. All I was asking, if you reread my first post, is if it was possible to replace the front sump oil seal with the engine in place. 1954Etype kindly answered this question in one line.

Your comment about the leak possibly being between sump and seal is, I think, spot on. Still a hassle but it could have been a lot worse.

Yeah well, the other Angus was succinct but possibly not as comprehensive in his diagnosis of your particular case. Meanwhile, I get paid by the yard, so the gift of brevity isn't high on my list of must-haves :-). Angus is a senior manager and wont to bark orders down the phone to contractors and underlings, as I have witnessed many times in awe, sitting in his kitchen at lunchtimes.

Always consider the source when evaluating advice!

You were the one who mentioned the rear seal by citing the manual as a source for your surprise that it might be the front seal. you were suggesting that only the sump and rear seals generally fail. I took that to mean you'd done the others and were suprised at the leak. By the tenor of your opening remarks you certainly weren't expecting a puddle? You've obviously done the sump seal so I wasn't exactly miles out.

Getting back to the leak question, how long was the sump off the engine? Assuming the front seal is the normal rubber-coated part and was not supported by the sump while it was removed, one would expect the seal to displace slightly downwards, meaning the uppermost section of the sharp-edged sealing lip(s?) could have distorted slightly on the spacer OD. Wouldn't normally expect that to be an issue ,as it should spring back once the sump is refitted and the seal once more pushed slightly upwards. But then one wouldn't expect a leak in the first place, so there's obviously something wrong with either the parts or the technique.

Anyway, good luck with it and, if you have done, I hope it was worth reading this far.....

Verbiage R Us

PeterCrespin wrote:Yeah well, the other Angus was succinct but possibly not as comprehensive in his diagnosis of your particular case. Meanwhile, I get paid by the yard, so the gift of brevity isn't high on my list of must-haves :-). Angus is a senior manager and wont to bark orders down the phone to contractors and underlings, as I have witnessed many times in awe, sitting in his kitchen at lunchtimes.

Always consider the source when evaluating advice!

You were the one who mentioned the rear seal by citing the manual as a source for your surprise that it might be the front seal. you were suggesting that only the sump and rear seals generally fail. I took that to mean you'd done the others and were suprised at the leak. By the tenor of your opening remarks you certainly weren't expecting a puddle? You've obviously done the sump seal so I wasn't exactly miles out.

Getting back to the leak question, how long was the sump off the engine? Assuming the front seal is the normal rubber-coated part and was not supported by the sump while it was removed, one would expect the seal to displace slightly downwards, meaning the uppermost section of the sharp-edged sealing lip(s?) could have distorted slightly on the spacer OD. Wouldn't normally expect that to be an issue ,as it should spring back once the sump is refitted and the seal once more pushed slightly upwards. But then one wouldn't expect a leak in the first place, so there's obviously something wrong with either the parts or the technique.

Anyway, good luck with it and, if you have done, I hope it was worth reading this far.....

Verbiage R Us

Pete, you are obviously bored at the moment. Why don't you come round and help me paint my garage....

Hi Angus found this in another section on the forum may be of interest http://etypeuk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3120 Regards Steve

Angus, don't wear Pete out before he moves to the States. I've got several jobs that he could do if he's bored when he gets here.

Mark

1954Etype wrote: Pete, you are obviously bored at the moment. Why don't you come round and help me paint my garage....

Tell me about it! Waiting for a gearbox to arrive and it turns out it didn't get through to the depot last night because of icy roads. Are you around next Thursday as I have to hand over another one to Newport Pagnell?

Can I bring my Mr Happy :D and Mr Grumpy stencils?

Peter Crespin wrote:Angus is a senior manager and wont to bark orders down the phone to contractors and underlings, as I have witnessed many times in awe, sitting in his kitchen at lunchtimes.

Pete love to be but unfortunately I have to do my meetings face to face at the moment so won't be at home.

Mark Gordon wrote:Angus, don't wear Pete out before he moves to the States. I've got several jobs that he could do if he's bored when he gets here.

Mark

Hey Mark just feed him raw meat and he'll do anything...

Peter, thank you for your lengthy reply, much appreciated. Just in from garage, skinned knuckles, oily hair, grumpy wife (knuckles and hair mine, not hers). Anyway, sump, crankshaft damper, water pump and timing chain cover off. Sump gasket was not leaking but front sump oil seal is a bit torn and did, as you surmised, hang sumpless for a few weeks. I'll replace it along with all gaskets removed today. I can see that refitting sump is going to be a lot of fun, there's very little clearance for it to slide back above reaction plate. I maybe should have removed that too but I'm trying to rebuild the car not dismantle it again. It was so much easier with the engine out.

Cheers

Other Angus

You can remove the stabiliser and loosen the engine mounts. This way you can raise the engine to gain more access.