One of my upper, front wishbones is well rusted out in the ball Cup and I mean good craters!
I've gone through the previous posts on the forum regarding the modified sockets to accept a nylon cup. My only question about that is the spare ball joints being a custom item going forward if it was modified locally.
Could the more experienced members please advise if there are any pitfalls with the upgraded options from the normal suppliers, which are available on the market today.
One supplier states their version is a disposable unit, that is throw away when it wears, which seems an expensive move. The other says the ball joint is replaceable but they don't appear to advertise the part.
Advise would be much appreciated.
Alun
Front Upper wishbone
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bitsobrits
- Posts: 561
- Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:09 am
- Location: Omaha, NE area
#2 Re: Front Upper wishbone
We should all be lucky enough to outlive a replacement ball joint.
When I replaced my upper arms with the nylon socket type, I ordered the replacement ball joint inserts at the same time in order to have the spares on hand. I wasn't confident that the supplier of these would have the spares in production many years later when they might be needed. But the reality is, at my current 500-1000 miles a year in the car, the new arms/ball joints will likely live long after I'm gone.
When I replaced my upper arms with the nylon socket type, I ordered the replacement ball joint inserts at the same time in order to have the spares on hand. I wasn't confident that the supplier of these would have the spares in production many years later when they might be needed. But the reality is, at my current 500-1000 miles a year in the car, the new arms/ball joints will likely live long after I'm gone.
Steve
'65 S1 4.2 FHC (early)
'65 S1 4.2 FHC (early)
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#3 Re: Front Upper wishbone
Alun Wrote:
When you say, "if it was modified locally", are you contemplating having a local machine shop modify your existing wishbones to accept the nylon inserts? If so, this is not a job that a machine shop can do economically, for just two units.
1. The profile form of the new pocket needs to be a close fit for the nylon insert, and there would be too much tool engagement to use a form tool to hope it didn't chatter, and achieve a nice result; plus, making a custom form tool would be expensive. The Ball Pin pocket of the original wishbone is Induction, Surface Hardened to over 50 RHC, therefore, machining with a form tool would be tough, and the tool wouldn't last long between regrinds.
2. The wishbones being sold by the After Market brigade have the appearance of being turned on a CNC lathe. In this case, the wishbone would be spinning with huge out of balance forces in play at the revs the part would have to spin at to get the surface speed required for a good finish. This could be achieved by building a special fixture to counter the out of balance of the part; another expensive project to spread over a couple of parts.
The least expensive method for a small batch is a custom fixture to hold the part true, rigidly, and stationary, then generate the profile shape with a milling cutter. But the making of the fixture and the initial set up will still be costly, unless the machine shop is contemplating making this exercise an ongoing service they offer.
Buying new wishbones that already have the nylon insert and ball joint is the best option unless you can find a machine shop that is already setup to do the job.
I modify existing wishbones to accept the nylon insert on a regular basis, and setting up with fixtures and getting the program sorted on the first part was not a 2 minute job. You can't afford a mistake and make junk out of an original wishbone, that are better made, in my opinion, than the new replacements. I can tell at a glance an original from a new replacement, even after the original has been freshly zinc plated.
Regards,
Bill
Hello Alun,My only question about that is the spare ball joints being a custom item going forward if it was modified locally.
When you say, "if it was modified locally", are you contemplating having a local machine shop modify your existing wishbones to accept the nylon inserts? If so, this is not a job that a machine shop can do economically, for just two units.
1. The profile form of the new pocket needs to be a close fit for the nylon insert, and there would be too much tool engagement to use a form tool to hope it didn't chatter, and achieve a nice result; plus, making a custom form tool would be expensive. The Ball Pin pocket of the original wishbone is Induction, Surface Hardened to over 50 RHC, therefore, machining with a form tool would be tough, and the tool wouldn't last long between regrinds.
2. The wishbones being sold by the After Market brigade have the appearance of being turned on a CNC lathe. In this case, the wishbone would be spinning with huge out of balance forces in play at the revs the part would have to spin at to get the surface speed required for a good finish. This could be achieved by building a special fixture to counter the out of balance of the part; another expensive project to spread over a couple of parts.
The least expensive method for a small batch is a custom fixture to hold the part true, rigidly, and stationary, then generate the profile shape with a milling cutter. But the making of the fixture and the initial set up will still be costly, unless the machine shop is contemplating making this exercise an ongoing service they offer.
Buying new wishbones that already have the nylon insert and ball joint is the best option unless you can find a machine shop that is already setup to do the job.
I modify existing wishbones to accept the nylon insert on a regular basis, and setting up with fixtures and getting the program sorted on the first part was not a 2 minute job. You can't afford a mistake and make junk out of an original wishbone, that are better made, in my opinion, than the new replacements. I can tell at a glance an original from a new replacement, even after the original has been freshly zinc plated.
Regards,
Bill
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#4 Re: Front Upper wishbone
Hi Bill,
thanks for the detailed explanation.
My post was aimed at trying to get an understanding of what was involved and how reliable the new modified units would be.
I note that you're in Australia so unfortunately not really local otherwise I'd send them your way but if anyone on the forum is aware of a machine shop in the UK, that is already set up to do the job, then please share.
Your point regarding original wishbones being higher quality than new is well made and would indicate that if the UK option is available, then that would be the way to go.
If not, then it's the usual suppliers.
Many thanks
Alun
thanks for the detailed explanation.
My post was aimed at trying to get an understanding of what was involved and how reliable the new modified units would be.
I note that you're in Australia so unfortunately not really local otherwise I'd send them your way but if anyone on the forum is aware of a machine shop in the UK, that is already set up to do the job, then please share.
Your point regarding original wishbones being higher quality than new is well made and would indicate that if the UK option is available, then that would be the way to go.
If not, then it's the usual suppliers.
Many thanks
Alun
Al
Series 1, 2+2
undergoing renovation
Series 1, 2+2
undergoing renovation
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