Gearbox dilemma

Mace · Post by **Mace** » Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:15 pm

Having read many posts on this site and spoken to a few E type owners with a Moss box I still find I cannot make a decision on which way to go with the gearbox?.

Although I am a long way off rebuilding the box but I like to plan ahead, I suppose it is because I have never driven a e type with a Moss box

1. Do I keep the Moss box and rebuild and hope that I like the box when finished it has only done 36k miles, cost about ? 500. ( don't fancy removing once the car is back on the road to change to another box)

2. Change to a full synchro 4.2 box cost say 2.5 k including ( buying and rebuilding) some owners I have spoken to at shows say it is the way to go?

3. Buy a E type Fabs box cost 4.5 k . Because it is only 2 k more than the 4.2
box and I no that they are the best on the market and fit without modification

The other consideration is which is preferable when you come to sell , the car is going to have a few mods ie brakes and cooling but still look as original as possible

Mark

christopher storey · Post by **christopher storey** » Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:03 pm

Who says that Uryk's box is the best on the market ? Its problem is that is a very low volume product with not a lot of development behind it. This inevitably means that the customers do most of the development running. That is not to say that you will not get good results with it, but it is a bit of a leap in the dark , as indeed all these low volume products are . Some people have had good results, and others that I know have been less satisfied .

I am not very conversant with the Moss in a 3.8 E, but I have extensive experience of them in XKs, and once you get used to them - particularly the need for slow changes - they can be quite satisfying to use with a very vintage feel to them. The pick of the boxes is undoubtedly the early all-synchro EJ box. The later all synchro boxes with the wider ratios are not so attractive

Post by **Heuer** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:12 am

I have a T5 box in my OTS which is superb for spirited driving. I also have a Moss box in my FHC which I love because of its idiosyncrasies. Filled with Red Line MTL it is actually quite good. Best 5 speed box is the Medatronics JT5 but you may find it difficult to buy one in Europe. Problems are:

1. You can't get the parts to properly rebuild a Moss box
2. You can't get decent synchro rings to rebuild a Jaguar 4 speed
3. Medatronics won't sell you a JT5
4. There is limited feedback from EType Fabs 5 speed users.

Personally I would stick with the Moss and use the phenomenal torque of the XK engine to power past everything.

38E · Post by **38E** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:25 am

Plus, the Moss box is said to absorb less power than the synchro box. Quite possible, at least on first because of the straight cut gears.

stef · Post by **stef** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:21 am

I have the Moss box in my '63 OTS.

At first the crunching of gears and taking off in reverse was a bit unnerving but now I feel that it gives the car more character and it is truer to what it was when it was new.

I would not want a 5speed now unless I was to drive it on a daily basis.

abowie · Post by **abowie** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:49 am

Heuer wrote:d
3. Medatronics won't sell you a JT5

They will in Australia. Watch this space...

rfs1957 · Post by **rfs1957** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:14 am

My impression was that Paul Cangialosi at 5speeds.com will supply anyone a JT5, but he won't deal with "the trade" in the UK.
He generally answers the 'phone in person, answers emails quickly, will tweak the ratios according to what you want, and I've never heard anyone criticise the product - only the straight-talking of the guy, which I find refreshing.
FWIIW, I think the Moss is great except for the whine in 1st, which doesn't suit the slickness of the car, and is anyway too short a gear (I'm on a 3.54 diff), I can live with the slow change and even enjoy the fact that it requires application to drive - but mine occasionally slips into neutral between 4-3 on light over-runs, so a JT5 adresses what (Guy Broad says) can be a difficult problem to cure, gives a longer 1st, and gives me the top-gear ratio I need without re-gearing what is a virtually brand-new diff. And I wouldn't buy a gearbox that initially trumpeted the advantages of its CNC case only to - shortly afterwards - trumpet the advantages of its casting ............ keep the hype for when there are 50+ running around with some decent mileage on them.
Now, if someone could just find me van-space going E.Sussex-S-of-France and help me get my Cangialosi box (plus ahem some Mini Van doors) south-bound, then I can get on with fitting it and find out for myself. Managed Connecticut-Goodwood hidden amongst Ferrari parts, now need Sussex-Montpellier ........... !

neil4444 · Post by **neil4444** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:22 am

Hi Mark,

I went round in circles on this very question myself. After reviewing all comments on this & other forums and understanding the various options & experiences, my findings were pretty much as per David's summary. I decided that I didn't want to risk a full rebuild of my Moss box only to be:

a) disappointed with its function
b) have the potential risk of it breaking due to there only being inferior quality parts available now.

So my decision was to buy brand new. This came down to 2 main options, the JT5 or ETF 5 speeds. I discounted the JT5 as was difficult to buy from UK & I was concerned that if anything went wrong I'd have to have it shipped back & forth between UK/US. So I went for the ETF. The decision was made easier for me by the excellent support offered by Uryk (if I didn't like it or anything went wrong he would swap the Moss box back into my car foc & give refund). Unfortunately I can't give you any feedback on the ETF box itself as it's sitting in a bay in Hutsons awaiting completion of my bodyshell.

HTH

Regards,

Neil

richard btype · Post by **richard btype** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:31 pm

Mark

Perhaps best to consider what best suits your driving style?

The Moss box is very distinctive in all sorts of agricultural ways, slow, noisy, and requires some skill - but very positive and direct a bit like a race gearbox. If you wish to conquer the art of silent gear changes then when you achieve this the involvement adds a further dimension to the driving experience!

The 4 speed syncro is very easy to live with because the opposite of the above is true. Cannot comment on the 'special' boxes.

Richard

Dave K · Post by **Dave K** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:14 pm

I used my Moss box for the first 10,000 miles after I restored my 3.8. My car originally had 44K miles on it and whether that isn't much for a Moss box or I just had a very good one I don't know but the box was fine, as other people have said it whines in 1st and reverse and the change is slow but I never had a problem with it.
The way my car is set up the revs were high at 80 and the noise in the car was tiring after a short while.

A CJ box became available at a more than reasonable price, it was in the UK so I had it. I love the box, fits as a Moss box does with absolutely no modifications, good slick gear changes and the best part is the revs at 80 in 5th are now around 2300 which makes cruising pleasurable.

I, like David drove the ETF test car with the ali 5 speed in and I think both us were impressed at the time but it was still a way off from being produced. I don't know if it is the best availalble or not but it performed perfectly.

To be honest I would still have the Moss box in my car if the CJ box hadn't suddenly come up and I didn't think any of them were worth the price tags for the amount of driving I do.

Dave

Mace · Post by **Mace** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:35 pm

Thanks to everyone who replied to my post. Most helpful , ok point taken on the E type Fabs box still being a work in development and not proven. Personally I think now I will go with the Moss Box as it is part of the character of series 1 cars , and if it gives problems later then make the change, or if it needs major parts during rebuild. I use to drive HGVs with Eaton 8 speed splitter crash box very satisfying when you get it wright!. Don't think I will be doing long touring holidays or high miles anyway.

Dave k , what do you mean when you say a CJ Box ?

David, I put redline oil in my 911 SC gearbox when I had it and that transformed that box so I will give that a try also.

Lastly can anyone recommend any specialist to look at the gearbox and maybe the rear diff

Regards,
Mark

Dave K · Post by **Dave K** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:41 pm

Mark,

CJ5-600 is the Classic Jaguar 5 speed gearbox from the States. The price is around ?5500 and I'm not sure if that includes shipping.
It is a billet aluminium machined gearbox. Search for Classic Jaguar and you will see it.
I also put Redline oil in my Moss box and it really made a difference.

Dave

richard btype · Post by **richard btype** » Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:43 pm

I have used a company near St Neots, Cambs to check out the diff on my Lotus Elan and BMW I believe they are called A1 - being situated as they are just off it - If you want their details let me know and I'll check in the files at home. The gearbox specialist - there is a company again in my notes who repair the Moss boxes and I recall he thought the cost would be around ?500, some parts are no longer available but he had quite a good stock and so far has managed to overhaul most of them.

Richard

richard btype · Post by **richard btype** » Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:58 pm

Mark

The people at St Neots are called A1 Gearbox 01480 213571 and they also repair the Moss Gearboxes. The company I have just recalled are Klassic or Klassik Gearboxes and are based in the midlands. However if you google 'Moss Gearbox Repairs' you will find many companies across the UK and personally I prefer to deliver and collect these things by hand so somewhere close is preferable.

Richard

Mace · Post by **Mace** » Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:23 pm

Hi Richard,

Thank you for your reply , i have just Googled Moss Gearbox and a few companies have come up but not in my area so will phone round few tomorrow including the ones you mentioned and see what they say. like you , i prefer to deliver and collect myself also.

Regards

Mark

Post by **Heuer** » Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:04 pm

This company seem to offer an all-synchro kit for the Moss box: http://www.jb-engineering.co.uk/

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:15 pm

Very interesting and well-spotted.

However, when you see 'P.O.A.' you know it ain't gonna be cheap! But then custom gear clusters never are. Be nice to hear from some with a before 'n after impression. Has to be a couple of thousand at a guess, if it's the entire cluster?

Pete

andrewh · Post by **andrewh** » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:02 pm

I will call then tomorrow and report back.

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