The 'E' Type Forum

Please someone advise what's wrong. Driving the car (67 4.2 OTS) makes a vibration that progressively gets worse as speed is increased. It is coming from the engine. If you put the clutch in, the vibration immediately stops. And still rolling at speed (clutch in) and revving the engine hard there is no vibration. I've replaced the plugs, plug leads. The car ticks over fine and revs no issues. Oil and filter changed, no contamination in the old oil. It can't be the wheels/tyres - with the clutch in and doing 60-70 mph - no vibration, other than normal via the road surface.

I'm wondering if it's the Black Knight again - the Prince of Darkness - J. Lucas and his crappy distributor? Thanks for any advice.

Paul

1962 3.8 FHC
1967 4.2 OTS

See if you can shake the engine from side to side as it could be mountings or stabiliser.

Clutch plate disintegrating?

Thanks Angus. I'll try that now. The mounting rubber, around the fronts does have a lot of little splits - bad sign?

Paul

1962 3.8 FHC
1967 4.2 OTS

Heuer wrote:Clutch plate disintegrating?

Never though of that. Car's done very few miles since full restoration and new clutch (15k) but has been laid up a lot of the time. Is there anyway of checking this?

Not engine mounts Angus. Whole car moves when engine is shaken. Paul

1962 3.8 FHC
1967 4.2 OTS

Northwestern wrote:Never though of that. Car's done very few miles since full restoration and new clutch (15k) but has been laid up a lot of the time. Is there anyway of checking this?

I think you already did. Vibration goes away when you press the clutch so it is from there backwards. I suggest you start by checking the prop shaft u/j's and making sure the bolts are secure at both ends. Could be a worn u/j.

Heuer wrote: I suggest you start by checking the prop shaft u/j's and making sure the bolts are secure at both ends. Could be a worn u/j.

What he said. Don't drive it until you have done this. While unlikely, if the prop shaft cuts loose under way it would be bad.

I certainly agree that an immediate check on propshaft bolts and ujs is called for. What has not been said is whether the vibration is drive/overrun sensitive. If it is, it nearly always points to a uj problem, either on the propshaft, or on the drive shafts . What also has not been said is the frequency range involved - is it engine rpm frequency, or much lower than that which would point to a driveshaft problem . It might also be worth checking for some bizarre faults e.g. the coupling to one of the carburetter throttles having become disconnected , or for a more serious engine problem which could be consistent with the vibration disappearing with the clutch pedal pressed down, such as a thrust washer having dropped out - very common on triumph sixes but relatively rare on XK engines

PS why slag off Lucas ? Your distributor is still working more than 40 years after it was made . I get very annoyed by this !

Ditto regarding the driveshaft bolts and U-joints. Any looseness here can cause all sorts of weird moans and vibrations.

Worn engine/gearbox mounts--especially at the rear--will usually result in clutch chatter rather than vibration. When the rubber bobbin that resides within the gearbox mounting spring fails and goes away, you may get some vibration when the centering pin contacts the metal mount, but this will usually be accompanied by clunks and the aforementioned chatter.

Thank you for suggesting checking the U/J's. I'll be careful.

Christopher, sorry I upset you about Lucas but my long experience with the electrical side has left me with a very bad impression. However, it may be a case of the modern repro parts not up to the same standard of those built 40+ years ago, and this I accept. Thank you for all the advice, it is appreciated. Paul

1962 3.8 FHC
1967 4.2 OTS

Ah, don't take my upset too seriously ! It is just that the first one-third of my motoring career , ( the total amounts to about 1,500,000 miles ), was exclusively on Lucas and I never had a single electrical breakdown .

Incidentally another bizarre possibility occurs to me - have you checked that the IRS cage is secure on all 4 mountings ? These are now quite commonly separating the rubber from the metal, and if e.g. the front 2 had failed the whole cage might twist in the fore/aft plane under drive

Thanks for all the advice and suggestions - very helpful as usual on this forum. Car is booked in for bottom inspection.

Paul

1962 3.8 FHC
1967 4.2 OTS

Before embarking on changing the propeller shaft U/J's (which I have discovered are original, or at least fitted before I bought the car 15+ years ago) I consulted the parts book. The ones illustrated appear to be without a grease nipple. U/J's listed, for example, on Ebay have nipples and others don't? What's the advice on this? The 4.2 handbook maintenance chart also makes no reference to grease nipples on this particular part of the car? And Christopher, thanks for suggestion regarding IRS cage mounts.

I'm rather hampered in what I can do and check on the car being disabled, so have to cover all the bases when booking the car in for work done by others not familiar with E's.

Paul

1962 3.8 FHC
1967 4.2 OTS

This one: http://www.sngbarratt.com/ProductDetail ... 9315f3be5e

David

The vibration is definitely caused by worn U/Js. I ordered a replacement pair for 4.2 E-Type from SNG Barrett after they told me the part you recommended was for a 3.8 E-Type and would not fit. The ones I ordered were their up-graded GKN versions Part No. JLM823U. These U/Js don't fit my propeller shaft, despite every effort to make them fit. After contacting Barretts' again they claim my propeller shaft must be a replacement from a 3.8 and therefore I ordered a second set of U/Js on the part number suggested by David (Part No. 46). They fit, but are smaller compared with the originals and therefore the play is massive. The originals are 81mm wide, compared with the replacements which are 74mm, leaving a margin of play on each point of 3.5mm! By chance I have a spare old propeller shaft and after dissembling it and comparing the U/Js in it with my originals both are identical. The U/Js are marked 'GKN F2573 F&P 52'.

So the question is what's the problem with these Barrett parts? I would like to get this sorted out as my E is lying in bits in a garage with several mechanics not too pleased with the parts supplied and a bill for parts over ?100!!

Paul

First off there were two types of prop shaft fitted to the 4.2 - C19875 and C22097 and they have different u/j part numbers. The 3.8 has yet another variant. Here is a capture from the GKN parts list - you need Jaguar part #10065 or #9409 (Hardy Spicer K5-GB117) translating to GKN #18100 aka U100 or #13808 aka U225 respectively:



You need to find out which prop shaft you have and go from there.
C22097:

C19875:


This pdf allows you to search by part number, manufacturer, car company or size: http://www.arbearings.co.uk/images/stor ... Joints.pdf

Suggest you shop here: http://www.arbearings.co.uk/products/gk ... oints.html as SNGB supersede to the same part number JLM823 for both which ties in with the GKN measurements for them which is a length of 81.7mm and diameters of 27mm - which means #JLM823 should have fitted :?

I need a rubber gaiter (it's more a hose) for the top one. C22097.

Anyone a Source ?

SNG has nothing on offer.

Carsten

David

The prop shaft looks very much like the exploded drawing of C19875. - No. 4, the large rubber gaiter is the same. However both shafts I have are stamped C26576. Looking on the web David Manners quotes this number (E-Type SWB) as being superseded by C22097 (which is the top exploded drawing). I have remeasured U/J Part No. JLM823U (upgraded) and the measurements are correct at 81.7mm, however, the body of the U/J is larger than the originals and will not fit into the yoke of the shaft.

Paul

Pictures and/or measurements of the yokes and journals? Could the yokes have been changed to those from another Jaguar?