We made it......M25 the Dartford Crossing

andrewh · Post by **andrewh** » Sun May 17, 2015 5:56 pm

ok, so today, I decided to take the 3.8 to Cambridge, I knew it was going to be warm and I would have both the M25 and the M11 to contend with but we got home without any mishaps

After a trouble free run to Cambridge, yet again 860897 spewed some water on the ground.

photos here https://www.facebook.com/honychurchclassics?fref=photo

but I avoided the temptation to top it up before setting off for Kent again. Even though the Dartford Crossing is meant to be solved now, it isn't and sure enough the traffic build up 4 miles out was the same as normal. Oh Gee I thought that was it. Not very popular with the Missus but I put the heating on and selected full fan and temperature went up to the 90 degree and a smidgen but stayed there. Now it has to be said that we were not totally static but stop start so as good as, and we made it through. Remember I am running new Fosseway radiator, totally rebuilt and chemically cleaned block and a new Otter switch but with the Toyota internals, but still the silly two blade fan. I feel pretty chuffed with that to be honest. I was a little tense whilst Mrs H was blissfully ignorant of the possible impending doom despite it getting hotter inside the car. That's what happens when you look out of the window for a second!

I did wonder whether if the traffic was absolutely solid whether I would have been better to switch the car on and off rather than let it idle and get hotter. I have a feeling it would have been the better option but thankfully we didn't have to find out.

MarekH · Post by **MarekH** » Sun May 17, 2015 6:29 pm

The "trick" is to not pull up too closely to the car in front.

A quick way to overheat any car is to simply allow the engine bay (and radiator) to be flooded with hot exhaust gases which are pulled in by the radiator fans from the car just in front of you.

kind regards
Marek

andrewh · Post by **andrewh** » Sun May 17, 2015 6:33 pm

MarekH wrote:The "trick" is to not pull up too closely to the car in front.

A quick way to overheat any car is to simply allow the engine bay (and radiator) to be flooded with hot exhaust gases which are pulled in by the radiator fans from the car just in front of you.

kind regards
Marek

]

Good thinking Batman. I actually do this automatically but I have always done it to provide me with space to get out or even get some, albeit a little bit of run when the traffic moves on.

Post by **1954Etype** » Sun May 17, 2015 6:38 pm

Leaving a gap makes a big difference l find.

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Sun May 17, 2015 10:41 pm

Now do it with the radiator off. It will just register a bit higher. Thank goodness you reset your mental thermostat and stopped topping it up and will now relax. The grasscutter fan is OK. Not perfect, but quite up to the job with a cleaned block and new rad.

I once overheated there in traffic near Thurrock on our way to Europe from Cambridge. SWMBO was clearly underwhelmed at the start of a tour, but my problem was a dud Otter. I just bridged it with an un-bent paper clip and the trip went fine.

andrewh · Post by **andrewh** » Mon May 18, 2015 7:40 am

PeterCrespin wrote:Now do it with the radiator off. It will just register a bit higher. Thank goodness you reset your mental thermostat and stopped topping it up and will now relax. The grasscutter fan is OK. Not perfect, but quite up to the job with a cleaned block and new rad.

I once overheated there in traffic near Thurrock on our way to Europe from Cambridge. SWMBO was clearly underwhelmed at the start of a tour, but my problem was a dud Otter. I just bridged it with an un-bent paper clip and the trip went fine.

you mean "try it with the heater off" presumably?

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Mon May 18, 2015 10:38 am

The heater is an auxiliary radiator and is what I was thinking of, but you're right, it was confusing.

richard btype · Post by **richard btype** » Tue May 19, 2015 3:14 pm

Andrew

Hope you get this sorted to a point where you can relax in these circumstances, in such a gorgeous machine it would be a shame not to enjoy to the full without the worry of breaking down - one doesn't need the stress!

:o

andrewh · Post by **andrewh** » Wed May 20, 2015 5:29 am

thanks, I think I am happy now. For many many years now I have known through folklore that 3.8's overheated and so I guess I came at this restoration wanting to stay with the original specification fitment but fearing I may have to revert to an electric fan. I have to say the Fosseway solution looks superb, and if I do have any issues then its off to buy one of their fans. Many on here have said, a correct aluminium rad, a chemical cleaned block etc etc and it should be ok. Well its looking like they may be right, but I don't want to count my chickens just yet!

Post by **1954Etype** » Wed May 20, 2015 6:48 am

The standard setup worked well enough when it was new. Biggest problem is the blocks silting up over the years and restricting the coolant flow. The only way to cure this is to make sure the block is completely descaled and cleaned inside.

I know of at least a couple of cars running the standard fan with no manual over ride switch. After all, they worked in Texas!

andrewh · Post by **andrewh** » Wed May 20, 2015 10:06 am

indeed they did work in hot climates but of course we do have somewhat greater challenges traffic wise today vs 50 years ago.
I recall David telling me that a lot of the fault can be put down to faulty otter switches which is why I bought the new one from the US. I also filled it with some Millers coolant additive which is meant to reduce temperature somehow, but I think most of that probably got dumped when I had an air lock in the heater feed which caused it to throw out a lot of the coolant early on. Probably should add some more now.

Post by **Heuer** » Wed May 20, 2015 10:11 am

'Water-Wetter' does seem to reduce engine temperature by about 5?C in my experience.

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Wed May 20, 2015 1:49 pm

andrewh wrote:indeed they did work in hot climates but of course we do have somewhat greater challenges traffic wise today vs 50 years ago.
I recall David telling me that a lot of the fault can be put down to faulty otter switches which is why I bought the new one from the US.

They had nose-to tail congestion and smog in the USA 50 years ago, in hot cities too.

Angus is right but the initial fault was often running water instead of coolant mixture. There are areas in the US bigger than Europe where the concept of 'antifreeze' as we know it is largely irrelevant. Consequently, many cars were run on water. That's where silted blocks and stuck long-stud heads come from. Assuming your car is run on coolant mix rather than pure water it will not start overheating in a year or two from any change inside.

I'm quite convinced the biggest reason for the 'overheating' reputation when the cars were still on sale is over-filling. I think it's still a huge factor today, as your own case and many others on this forum and Jag-lovers show.

Getting hot is not overheating. Getting hotter than normal in traffic is not overheating. Overheating is spiralling beyond the control of the heating system and boiling over in a cloud of steam. Puking liquid coolant from an expansion vent is normally benign and operator error.

andrewh · Post by **andrewh** » Wed May 20, 2015 2:47 pm

PeterCrespin wrote:
andrewh wrote:indeed they did work in hot climates but of course we do have somewhat greater challenges traffic wise today vs 50 years ago.
I recall David telling me that a lot of the fault can be put down to faulty otter switches which is why I bought the new one from the US.
They had nose-to tail congestion and smog in the USA 50 years ago, in hot cities too.

Angus is right but the initial fault was often running water instead of coolant mixture. There are areas in the US bigger than Europe where the concept of 'antifreeze' as we know it is largely irrelevant. Consequently, many cars were run on water. That's where silted blocks and stuck long-stud heads come from. Assuming your car is run on coolant mix rather than pure water it will not start overheating in a year or two from any change inside.

I'm quite convinced the biggest reason for the 'overheating' reputation when the cars were still on sale is over-filling. I think it's still a huge factor today, as your own case and many others on this forum and Jag-lovers show.

Getting hot is not overheating. Getting hotter than normal in traffic is not overheating. Overheating is spiralling beyond the control of the heating system and boiling over in a cloud of steam. Puking liquid coolant from an expansion vent is normally benign and operator error.

I totally get your point Peter, and am hopeful that your explanation is correct. It certainly did not overheat on sunday I was just panicking as it was my first experience of a hot day and stationary traffic. I am feeling a lot happier, and thanks David I will get some more water wetter.

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Wed May 20, 2015 3:50 pm

We've all been there Andrew. Same when the oil gauge starts misbehaving. It's precisely to assuage such fears that I keep reminding folks of the basics about overheating versus puking. Nobody likes to see a needle climb at first. Then water vapour coming up through the louvres and your wife asking 'What's that funny smell?" doesn't help matters. If you're in stationary traffic on the Dartford approaches or the M25 and Tim NiceButDim in the next lane shouts "Lovely car old sport, but she's leaking fit to bust!" then it's human nature to want to replace the fluid ASAP. So we go round again, the poor old girl inevitably wets her pants the next time, and an unjustified bad rep is reinforced.

I haven't seen your car but with a good block, pump and new rad you're golden. If the fan switches on and the cap is good relax and enjoy the view over the bonnet instead of scrutinising the gauges as if you were running out of fuel at 10,000' over water.

Pete

Post by **1954Etype** » Wed May 20, 2015 4:43 pm

I run my car with a coolcat fan and otter. No coolant adfitives apart from antifreeze. havent topped it up in 3 years. The original motor need rebuilding so it was the same cost to replace it. If l have time, l might run it with an original fan one day.

Andrew, just relax, you'll be fine. (Now, are you 100% sure that your gauge is reading correctly......

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