engine sump

frenchi · Post by **frenchi** » Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:27 pm

i will need a 4.2 for my car do i need a sump of a 3.8 or does a 4.2 go inis there a year to get ot stay clear of ,i have a good 3.8 complete

abowie · Post by **abowie** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:17 am

I would be looking to sell the 3.8 sump and replace it with a 4.2 sump as the 3.8 sumps are more valuable.

frenchi · Post by **frenchi** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:22 am

what i was after is does a 4.2 fit in an e type with sump on or do you need a 3.8 .would it be a problem pulling a 4.2 out of a xj6 and planting in an e type cradle,many thanks

44DHR · Post by **44DHR** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:45 am

First off, the alloy E type sumps for a 3.8 or 4.2 E type are completely different to each other and certainly different to a XJ6 4.2 sump.

E type sumps do not have cast "wings" each side of the lower rear of the sump as on the XJ6 sumps as the E type has its longitudinal torsion bars each side of the sump. There are differences between the earlier 3.8 and the later 4.2 E type sumps as the rear crankshaft oil seal carriers are different diameters, so the rear of 3.8 sump has a single larger smooth radius to take a cork seal, whereas the rear of the later 4.2 sump has a different smaller radius with a cast recess to take a rubber seal.

If you hold up a 3.8 sump to a later 4.2 engine there is a gap between the sump and the rear crank oil seal carrier as the earlier 3.8 engine had a bigger diameter seal carrier. Also with the different oil seal carriers, the 4.2 sump seal locates further back and incorporates an additional "nose" in the casting, whereas the 3.8 is flatter in side profile.

Then if you are using an XJ6 engine there are the internal oil pipes to change, particularly the oil pick up pipe with it's various unique brackets and clamps to change to direct the pick up into the baffle basket which sits in a different location to the XJ6.

I can post some photos to show the differences of the rear sealing areas of a 3.8 and 4.2 sump when I get home.

regards,

Dave

frenchi · Post by **frenchi** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:09 am

you are the man i need help from cant afford e type to break down for 15000 so i bought a shell doors cradle bonnet wheels so will source bits has i go ,i bought a few bits other day and managed to get a shell rotten for my brother so we are both building a bit at a time its just what you can get off other jags to help build need drive train hubs arms axles gearboxs engines but what we do have hopefully to do a swap for some engines is a complete 3.8 1967 engine all freed up turns over easy any help more then welcome

44DHR · Post by **44DHR** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:50 pm

Some photos to assit.

A 3.8 E type Jaguar sump next to a 420 Jaguar Sump. Note the single cork sealing surface of the 3.8 sump and the rubber seal of the 420 which sits further back on the sump in relation to the sump mounting bolts. Also the different pick up point of the oil pump in the sump baffle requiring different pick up pipes. One of the "wings" of the 420 sump is visible.

The 3.8 E type Jaguar sump single sealing surface where the cork seal sits on top of the sump radius.

A 4.2 E type Jaguar sump showing the same rubber seal as the 420 Jaguar sump which sits in a groove cast in the sump.

I trust this assists.

regards,

Dave

frenchi · Post by **frenchi** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:15 pm

thanks for that ,so does any sump fit into the engine cage ,or is it only e type that fits,

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:28 pm

E-type not XJ, but if you were transplanting a whole engine then any narrow-sump engine like XK150 3.8 or MkIX (both steel sump) could probably be persuaded.

frenchi · Post by **frenchi** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 4:23 am

was told that any pre 78 xj6 4.2 would slip straight in ,your the man to answer this one im hoping your going to say it fits

christopher storey · Post by **christopher storey** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:52 am

I rather think the answer was given at the start. The "wings" i.e. the sideways protrusions at the base of the XJ6 type sump prevent use of them in E types because they will collide with the torsion bars

Durango2k · Post by **Durango2k** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:59 am

Iirc Pete wrote years ago that you can use this winged pan, IF you cut the wings of and weld - close them flat.

And that option may still be cheaper today - no idea what a repro costs.

Carsten

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:45 pm

I have seen an unmodified XJ sump here with no left ' wing'. No, it wasn't flying round in circles. I think American cars with catalysts needed the room and that kind of sump does fit because ultimately it's the lack of room for the pipes twixt tb and sump wing that normally precludes the use of subframe sumps i.e. MkX, 420G, Mk2, XJ etc.

Because there is no transatlantic traffic in XJs like there is in E-types, I had never seen such a sump before moving her. So the advice may be different between USA and RoW. I HAVE seen a UK sump with the left wing chopped off and an alloy plste welded up, but the capacity would be lower and oil-impregnated sand castings are not fun to weld.

frenchi · Post by **frenchi** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:18 pm

now comes next one,any idear what is the latest reg i can go to on a xj engine big thanks

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:53 pm

Any XJ engine will fit if it's an XK cast iton block engine. It didn't go out of production until 1992 on the Daimler limos like the one that poor old guy on the A27 was driving at Shoreham, RIP. I can't think how many hundred times I drove/rode through those lights near Riccardo Engineering when I lived in Lancing 88-93. If you want and XJ reg it would probably be C reg or maybe D, Series 3 model.

trondvo · Post by **trondvo** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:30 pm

Pricewise, I paid GBP 475 for a repro sump, bought if from Chesman Engineering and they had a stock.

Have not tried it onto the 3.8 (Mark X engine) it is intended for but will test fit it next week and bring my cellcam.

trondvo · Post by **trondvo** » Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:44 am

The sump is still sitting in my office but pictures as promised.

PeterCrespin · Post by **PeterCrespin** » Tue Sep 01, 2015 1:29 pm

Nice piece of foundry work, but a 4.2 sump on a 3.8 engine? Have fun...

trondvo · Post by **trondvo** » Tue Sep 01, 2015 1:47 pm

PeterCrespin wrote:Nice piece of foundry work, but a 4.2 sump on a 3.8 engine? Have fun...

Oh no, not good. I did actually suspect that when I picked it up but everything was in a rush, had a ferry to reach in Dover and way too much GBP notes. Triple asked for fitment and they said it would fit. Maybe they handed me the wrong one, I'll contact them and see if they have the other sump.

Will grab it it now and up to the garage tomorrow and check on the 3.8 engine. What are the differences / obstacles with this and the 3.8 engine?

trondvo · Post by **trondvo** » Tue Sep 01, 2015 3:35 pm

Impatience made me check out the sump after work. Sump bolts line up, the front seal seem to be good and the rear seal as well. Rear is hard to say before I take off the flexplate but looks ok. Maybe I am missing something or perhaps they reengineered the sump, the only matter with the Mark X engine was the oil pickup, it need be shortened a little or bent upwards. Touched the bottom of the sump.

tinworm · Post by **tinworm** » Tue Sep 01, 2015 4:20 pm

Hi Trondvo - no recess on the 3.8 sump for the rear seal.

regards Barrie

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