The 'E' Type Forum

Hi All
The story so far I purchased my 66/67 OTS about 6 months ago and the supplier did about £3.2k of essential repairs and general recommissioning work to get it MOTed and registered... it is a LHD US import. Work included some welding to the lower front frame mounting points, new starter, headlamps and the sundry pipes as well as the usual fluids, gaskets and seals

Having initially stopped the petrol, water and some of the oil leaks. I also repiped the heater circuit which had been looped out, including new heater box and 2 of the 3 bulkhead pipes as well as a complete hose kit. At this point I had hoped to use the car for 3-4 years to really get to now it prior to a full nut and bolt rebuild.........

However
I took the decision to fit a new wiring loom as I had done this on a previous 2+2 and figured that this would give me a 'reliable' car, awkward but doable and also in the timescale required, we are planning to use it for the Big One in Leon Spain April 2017. In the meantime on the few trips I had managed I realised that I had a slipping clutch, which I had hoped would 'right' itself now it was being used, after much advice and reading I soon realised that I couldn't take the risk and the clutch would have to be changed. WELL if the engines coming out and I'm fitting a new wiring loom, may as well do a number on the engine bay, which leads me to the current state of affairs....

Front end completely stripped of everything internally and externally except the front frame legs. I had damage to the front bonnet frame and the picture frame. Which brings me to my first question... Repair or replace the picture frame and will it affect its matching numbers status (and value) if I have a new one and is it ok to stamp a new one with my original number ?

Realising I don't have the time or skills I intend to ship the engine out to be refurbished. I am not looking to 'upgrade' the engine, but to do the work and recommended upgrades to keep it as close to standard as possible. I appreciate that it will depend on engine condition when it is opened up, but how long and how much should I expect to pay for this, and do I need to use one of the XK specialists to do the work or will a good local engine shop be able to do it. Also what would you recommend as minimum requirement for a rebuild and must do upgrades

I am also going to outsource painting the leg frames, picture frame and bonnet frame, leaving me just the bulkhead to refresh. I may also outsource the polishing

I am based in Reading Berkshire and would appreciate any recommendations, locally or otherwise for people to use for:-
Shot blasting
Painting
Mobile welding
Engine rebuilding
Frame welding repairs maybe ?

And a heads up on anything else I need to be aware of, or think about

Many thanks for taking the time to read this

Richard

Hi Richard
Was told by my seller when I purchased my series 1 2+2 that it is acceptable,according to his research,to fit a new picture frame and have rest amped with original number.
Hopefully that's correct.
Neil.

Hi Richard - try CMES in Bracknell for the rebuild........ Classic and Modern Engine Services. http://cmesuk.com/services/engine-renovation-exchange/

Hi Richard...welcom to the forum....no problem getting a new picture frame stamped...look at this thread for details viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9865&p=77748&hilit= ... 48.....you can also have it welded/repaired.......this is not the case with the main frames (one either side) ...these are made from Reynolds tube that is not weld reparable..

I agree with everything said about the picture frame - preferably repair (by welding if needed, although they are very durable but tend to get mangled by improper jacking ) but if need be replace. Restamping is perfectly ok, but my advice is keep your old one in the loft since that eliminates any argument about authenticity should it ever arise

I'm also in agreement with the above, CMES did my engine rebuild and it was very good & worth the wait as there is a queue, so book it in quick if you want to meet your April deadline.
Again with the picture frame, get a professional repair to the original frame if viable as a preference.
Any problems with the engine frames and they will need replacing, do not try and repair.
If you are doing the clutch, then check that the gearbox is all OK too, as it would be better to do that at this point as well.

If you could post a picture or two of the picture frame damage, that would help.

James

Another engine refurbisher worth a try could be:

http://www.vse-engines.com

Have not tried them myself but a friend did and he is very satisfied

Hi guys

Thanks for all the rec's for CMES, I had come across them in my searches and being local they where my preferred choice. Spoke to them this morning and delivered the engine this afternoon. Happy days

I am new to all of this having only ever changed alternators on a Mk1 escort back in the mid 80's and fitted a new wiring loom in my 2+2 about a decade ago, so please forgive my ignorance, I am learning FAST

Below are some pictures of the damage to frames (James). Thoughts and advice greatly appreciated

Initial damage


Damaged by me when the header tank bracket captive nut was no longer captive


and me again when removing bonnet frame with bolt seized in sleeve


and the usual jacking damage....not me


bonnet frame damage


bonnet frame rust


minor (I hope) LHS leg damage, can I just straighten this out


and this is some welding work done to LHS lower outer leg mounting point to get it through the MOT so it could be UK registered. I am hoping I can extricate the leg frame with some careful grinding


Many thanks for taking the time to look and all the replies

Cheers
Richard

My picture frame has been replaced twice in my ownership and both times restamped with the same chassis number.I can't see why it would be improper to do so since it is really a running repair to keep the car on the road if it is needed. Mine were last changed in 2014 purely because the car had led a hard life for over 25 years and they are known to rust from within. What, for example, happens if you have an accident? A friend was hit from behind last year by a Land Rover and shunted into the ditch. No option really but to replace and restamp. If the process is "improper" then all C and D-types are replicas I suppose, given their racing and accident history. I believe that the true definition of a real car is one with a full and continuous history, not whether it has had parts replaced. Best of luck with your rebuild by the way. I am more than pleased with my engine rebuild which was done by VSE. Oiltight and runs beautifully, and not too dear.

The picture frame is just steel and can be repaired.
The tube on the bonnet frame is CrMo and cannot. Just buy a new one.
What they have done welding the engine from mount to the firewall is awful. I can't believe that enabled the car to pass an MOT. That's going to take some work to clean up and fix...

Yes, they look pretty shot to me.

I had a couple of dinks to deal with however the frames were not corroded, so it was all a quick cosmetic job for me.

When I dropped the engine off to CMES yesterday I was offered the upgraded Rear oil seal conversion option, which I have initially declined on the basis it required work that couldn't be returned to standard afterwards, but I have since spoken to my brother-in-law and he thought it would be a good idea. The flywheel needed to be resurfaced and new ring gear fitted anyway and they are balancing it as well

Any thoughts for/against and anything else I should consider

Was going to get the gearbox checked over whilst its out as I believe this was leaking, any rec's in the Reading. Berks area

Yes I will be getting a new bonnet frame, not sure about the picture frame yet. Hoping that I can get the remaining engine frame off and that they are ok, then find a mobile welder that can properly repair the lower fixing panel, once again if you know anyone in my area please fell free to PM me

Nice frames James, I was hoping mine would be a quick refresh, but the works required just seems to be growing, going all out to get it back on the road for April though

Having just been through all of this, I would say their is no definitive answer to the rear engine seal question.

My engine builder is convinced that a correctly fitted rope seal is as good as anything else as long as the car is used relatively regularly.

He fitted a rope seal to my new engine and it does not leak.

I would have thought any engine builder could cure a gearbox leak, as once it is removed from the car, the gaskets and seals can be changed relatively easily without the gears coming out. My box had hard front and rear seals and hard selector "o" rings. I had already done the selector "O" rings.

My engine guy did the rest for me, and at the same time I replaced the 3 gaskets, speedo o rings and filler washers. It was no big deal. It meant he was able to reassemble the whole lot with a new clutch prior to me collecting it all.

wenzil wrote:
Any thoughts for/against and anything else I should consider

The long and the short of it is that sometimes the original rope seal design leaks and sometimes it doesn't.
Unfortunately it seems that the same can be said of the various iterations of the "upgraded" rear seals.
I stick to the original. If you install them properly with the correct tool, and know what you're doing, they sometimes don't leak.

I would not touch the lipseal conversion with a bargepole. Of the 5 engines I know where this has been done, 4 did not work, and required a new crankshaft as a result . The rope seals work well if properly prepared ( soaked in oil for at least a week before fitment) , and properly fitted ( suitably sized, preferably with the Jaguar tool , and with the protruding ends under no circumstances being cut off )

Hi Wenzil,
Your picture frame doesn't look too bad and could be welded

pictures 405 by paul scott, on Flickr

pictures 407 by paul scott, on Flickr

pictures 408 by paul scott, on Flickr

The bonnet frame could also be mended, but whether it is worth it, is debatable. I replaced the two bottom tubes on mine; they are brazed on and straightened the rest. they are mild steel not Reynolds tubing.

Picture 5028 by paul scott, on Flickr

Picture 5070 by paul scott, on Flickr

Picture 5141 by paul scott, on Flickr

Picture 5148 by paul scott, on Flickr

Paul

wenzil wrote:When I dropped the engine off to CMES yesterday I was offered the upgraded Rear oil seal conversion option, which I have initially declined on the basis it required work that couldn't be returned to standard afterwards, but I have since spoken to my brother-in-law and he thought it would be a good idea. The flywheel needed to be resurfaced and new ring gear fitted anyway and they are balancing it as well

Any thoughts for/against and anything else I should consider

I recently started my rebuilt engine, and while it hasn't been run on the street thus far, it has perhaps 30-40 minutes of run time in the garage. Absolutely no evidence of leaks (front or rear) thus far...Terry's Jaguar Viton lip seal at the rear, and a Teflon seal used at the front.

The rear seal kit from Terry's Jaguar is former owner Bill Terry's design. It uses the Federal Mogul Viton seal that was original equipment on numerous GM engines. No finicky spring to attach after the crank is in place...much less chance for leaks than for the clamshell/spring design. That said, a friend has the clamshell lip seal in his car...works fine. Bill has installed his kit in many of his race prepped engines and he was happy to discuss it when I called him. Terry Lippincott of Lippincott Garage in Pennsylvania has installed both designs with success. Check with the guys who have hands on experience. By the way, Viton seal kits are commonly retrofitted to early U.S. muscle cars that had rope seals.

I just ran across this video while looking for info on rear window seal installations. Thought it might be of interest regarding rear lip seals on the crank. A video from the man himself...Bill Terry. Wait for the part where the crank magically descends directly into the bearings.