Broken clock from a 1969 series 2 E-type

[Henkie]

Hello,

The clock from my '69 Etype is broken down

After one year running on a 1,2 Volt AA battery the clock death on me
I took it apart, and when I put 1.2 volt (pulsing) on the coil, the clock is running. In my opinion, the capacitor or transistor is broken.

Text on those components:
-Transistor: E5083 T1 or TI
- Capacitor: 05UF 10V

According to my local electronic guy the numbers on the components are Smith numbers (he can't find them)!

Does anyone knows what to use for a transistor and capacitor? Can't be that hard to run a clock.

Many thanks for your reactions

Henk

[malcolm]

They weren't designed to run on AA type batteries really; I think either the capacitor or transistor is to modify the voltage?
I get my clock batteries from www.smallbattery.company.org.uk (tel 0044 208871 3730).
I use the LR50 battery from them
This may or may not help you!

[johnetype]

Any small signal switching transistor will do, the challenge is to know if the original is NPN or PNP.

A Google search on your transistor number will lead to some interesting sites including this one:

http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/show ... hp?t=99950

which will tell you more. Once you know the answer, somewhere like Maplins will be able to supply you with both the transistor and capacitor.

The '69 vintage E type clock used a 1.2 volt mercury cell which is no longer available. An AA cell or it's equivalent in a package size the same as the mercury cell which you can buy now would be 1.55 volt. There's a link from the above site to a 420G site that suggests the increase in voltage makes the clock run fast but I'm not convinced this can be true.

However, using a LR50 battery Martin mentions would certainly destroy the clock as it's a 12 volt battery.

Overall, as you may know, these clocks are nothing but trouble and you could consider having it converted to a quartz movement inside keeping the original face, hands and case. There is a link on the Coolcat site and this is what I plan to do with my clock:

http://www.coolcatcorp.com/Merchant5/me ... Code=Clock

John

[malcolm]

However, using a LR50 battery Martin mentions would certainly destroy the clock as it's a 12 volt battery.

John

Actually, it's Malcolm, not Martin. Doesn't matter! Been called worse. But the LR50 isn't 12 volts, it's 1.5 volts and fits the original cradle of the E Type clock. Doesn't run fast until, perversely, the battery starts to go flat, then it runs fast (not slow)
I've been using these batteries for years, clock works well.
Here's a link to one on E Bay:
https://www.google.co.uk/aclk?sa=l&ai=D ... IMg&adurl=

[nottsman]

Malcolm,

Forgive my ignorance but did you have to carry out any mods before using the LR50 battery?

Cheers,

Nick

[malcolm]

Hi Nick;
this is my clock - same as yours I think



This is the back of it. the battery (LR50) just slips into the battery holder on the back as you can see



If you don't have this holder, maybe someone removed it to allow AAs to fit?

[Henkie]

[quote="johnetype"]Overall, as you may know, these clocks are nothing but trouble and you could consider having it converted to a quartz movement inside keeping the original face, hands and case. There is a link on the Coolcat site and this is what I plan to do with my clock:

Yes, I already saw that option but it cost 100 dollar + 10 dollar shipping and I think another 10 dollar to ship it to the states. First i'm going to experiment with the transistor and collector to get it running.

If I succeed it saves me 120 dollar

Thanks all for your comments

[Simon P]

Mine, unmodified and running on an LR50, keeps perfect time. Am I doing something wrong?

[Series1 Stu]

There's a saying in clock making circles that goes

"If your clock keeps good time, then you're lucky"

[Bfastr]

I have been running the LR50 for years too with no troubles, at first I would chase the time setting as the voltage began to fall off, now I buy the batteries in bulk and just swap it out every year.
if it were to completely crap out I would send it for the quartz transplant, but as long as the time displayed is close to accurate I am keeping the original setup.

[johnetype]

After my faux pas in confusing Malcolm with Martin (sorry, Malcolm), I decided to have another look at my clock to see if I could add to this thread. I now have my clock working fine and would observe:
• My clock had stopped working because a layer of corrosion caused by a previously leaking battery had insulated the lead from the battery holder positive under the head of the screw that secures it to the metal case.
• These clocks are run as positive earth. That is possible even though the cars themselves are negative earth because the positive earth part only applies to the clock battery and how it is connected to the clock. Something to be aware of though if you convert your clock to run off an AA or AAA battery which is a perfectly possible thing to do.
• It also means you can’t easily convert these clocks to run off the main car battery just by reducing the 12 volts down to 1.5 volts.
• It isn’t hard to get the clock apart as I had to, to clean up the consequences of a leaking battery but don’t remove the two screws that hold the clock face on and then remove the face as you’ll have several plastic gears spill over you and the challenge of working out how they go back together…..
• Given that these clocks are positive earth, it’s highly likely that the answer to the question that started this thread is a PNP transistor. However, having looked at how the clocks work it’s also unlikely that that transistor will fail with a break in the battery supply possibly due to corrosion being much more likely.
• It does say on the back of the clock, but not in the Owners handbook that to start one of these clocks you have to pull out knurled headed knob on the clock face and let it go. This imparts an impulse to the balance wheel and kicks it into life. Just inserting a new battery on it’s own will not start the clock and it certainly caught me out.
• Using a 1.5 volt LR50 is fine and needs no modification
• Finally, if all else fails the Caerbont Automotive Instruments (successor to Smiths) rep at Goodwood FOS told me that they now do a 60mm clock replacement. It has a quartz movement and is around £90.

John

[Steve Marshall]

I just had my identical clock converted to quartz by JDO Instrument Repair in Keighley.

All seems fine, I just modified the battery holder to mount on the back of the 'U' clamp because I didn't fancy it hanging around loose somewhere behind the instrument console.

Steve

[288gto]

Resurrecting this thread because I came across it while searching for details on the 1969 Series 2 clock I have.

Mine is exactly the same as the pic at the beginning of the thread but has the part number cte 3107/01 as opposed to what looks like "/00" in the pic.

However, rather than any battery holder, mine has a purple 12v supply wire and a black negative on the casing.

Is this a replacement clock or did Smiths do away with the battery at some point? Has it been modified? It all looks original.


The clock works fine by the way connected up to a 12v supply.


Simon

[mark10337]

I also have the clock with a 12v supply. The battery operated clock (C.28497 CET-3201/00) was fitted up to Chassis Nos.
1R.1350 1R.10536 OTS
1R.24424 1R.26834 FHC
1R.35563 1R.42676 2+2

the 12v clock C.32438 CTE-3107/01 was fitted to all subsequent Series 2 models.

I'm very interested where the 12v supply wire comes from if this is original.

Methinks more Series 2 factory fit is needed :-)

[christopher storey]

My clock is a battery clock and it is much more accurate than any of yours. Mine is right twice a day

[Gfhug]

My clock is 12v, change came in during S2 production and the drivers handbook mentions this, iirc
Didn't work so sent to Mike Eck for his quartz mod, works very well now

Geoff

[288gto]

Thanks chaps,

As regards the wiring, the new Autosparks loom doesn't seem to have an independent purple supply for the clock. On closer inspection of the old loom that was removed 6 years ago, the supply looks to have come from the back of the interior light switch but this and others have been altered /repaired with crimp on spade connectors so I can't confirm originality of the wiring. There is no mention of "clock" on the fuse description plaque but purple wires are fuse 8 if I remember correctly.

At least I now know it's a genuine E type clock.

Simon

[JackSopp]

I have unmodified and running on LR50, keeps perfect time as well...

[Herzeg]

My clock is a 12v supply from the loom. I have the problem that connecting a trickle charger is difficult to organise in my garage and the clock is using valuable power for those hard to start winter days.

Has anyone come up with a way to feed the clock via a small 12v rechargable that could be linked to the loom with suitable wiring to allow it to charge when the ignition is on, but not take power the rest of the time? This way the clock might eventually run out of juice but won't drain the car battery.

I think I will try to work something out if there are no suggestions, but there are many people here more electronically cleverer than me and I'm sure someone will have an idea. I saw this for example https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/lithium- ... s/7760866/ and thought if I could wire it with a diode (?) to stop reverse current drain? I am well outside of my comfort zone here but it can't be that hard.

John

[johnetype]

and the clock is using valuable power for those hard to start winter days.

That depends on how much power the clock uses. Have you measured how much current the clock draws? I don't know how Smiths designed the 12 volt clock but if the clock uses 1mA of current it will take approximately 3.5 years to half discharge a typical E type battery. Clearly the battery will self discharge in a faster time so the clock isn't an issue. If the clock draws 10mA then you're looking at more like 4 months to half discharge a battery but that would be a very poor design by Smiths. If you've got an alternator, that will draw a few mA as well. All in all, unless you've fitted any modern electronics like a radio etc. I'd expect the self discharge of the battery to be comparable to the power used by the clock and alternator andso powering the clock independently isn't going to help with those winter starts.