debris in oil sump huks!

[thexkeprocess]

I am going to hate the answer to this question.

I removed the oil sump to replace sump gasket and found debris in the oil sump.

Metal shavings and brass coloured bits. See pics.

Where did this stuff come from. I inspected the underside of the engine and all looks really good. No scratches, scrapes, nothing out of place. Turned the engine over and checked the rotation and again nothing untoward.

Any ideas?

Mark

[christopher storey]

The one obvious source for brass/phosphor bronze chippings is the oil pump/distributor drive gear. It is worth looking at that while the sump is off . The ?steel shavings could be from anything although they look like remnants of sheet metal rather than anything more solid . It is clear, however, that they have not got into the oil system and therefore it is unlikely that they have gone through anything vital. I wonder, perhaps, whether a conrod has been hitting one of the sump baffles? If so, there should be witness marks on the upper surface of a baffle - or possibly even a hole worn through it

[chrisfell]

Are the black bits rubbery? If so I'd suspect the timing chain tensioner or guides. Whatever it is, it looks like another gasket or two might be needed.

While the sump is off remove and inspect the oil pump. Anything in the sump may also have travelled into the oil pump and the bits chewed and spat into the oil filter. Very sharp things might even have gone throught the filter and into oil galleries.

I once found swarf from a big end split pin in the cam feed pipes, blocking the flow and costing me an inlet cam and several followers. The major lumps of the pin had been caught by the filter, smaller bits, about 1-2mm in size, were sharp enough to penetrate the paper filter and get pumped around the engine.

Finding bits of swarf in the engine may make your heart sink, but not finding them and running the engine is much much worse.

[PeterCrespin]

With that amount of debris I'd assume it came from under the fabricated baffle? Some of the largest bits were likely in the mesh basket or sitting above the baffle and maybe in the small compartment up front which drains into the main sump compartment.

Equally, some fine granular debris is very likely in the sludge traps and some fine grain but hard debris into the main and big end bearing shells
metallic grains are embedded in your big end and main bearing shells. What you do about that depends on your intended use of the car and your attitude to risk and grinding the crank due to ridges/grooves,

[abowie]

]

Are you saying that all of this stuff is metal?

[thexkeprocess]

Hi, thanks for your replies. to answer the last post, they look like plastic shavings but because of the dark colour it is very hard to tell between plastic and very thin metal. I tried to clean them with varsol but still cant tell.

I am taking out the oil pump and replacing it to be safe and replacing the oil intake and discharge pipe 0 rings as well.

I cannot be sure of any damage to the main bearings unless I take one off to see what is there. Would the centre main bearing shell be the best to look at?
Mark

[JagWaugh]

Rinse the debris.

Run a magnet over it, whatever the magnet picks up is ferrous (or has a good bit embedded in it).
Put the debris on a clean brass plate and heat it gently with a torch.
What melts or gives off smoke is plastic.

The rest is Copper, Brass, Bronze, or Al/white (very little stainless in a Jag).

I'd take off all the shells.

[Hugo]

Don't like the look of that. It looks like something has been subjected to a lot of force. If that were my engine I would not run it until I had some answers. Hard to tell from the pics what it is - if you're lucky it might be something trivial, but sod's law says it isn't. Whie the sump is off, at a minimum I would pull all bearing caps as somebody suggested & have a close look at the shells (so sorry, I can't remember who it was!).

[thexkeprocess]

Update
Looks like it's no 3 piston crankshaft bearing shell
Was twisting around in place and melted

Scored crankshaft

All bad !!!

Am removing engine

Anyone have a recommendation as to who to take it to in Toronto area

Mark

[Hugo]

Ouch. Sounds like you have a blocked oilway in the crank. May have damaged the small end (piston pin) also. Now you, or somebody, has the job of getting all the sludge plugs out of the crank & cleaning all the centrifugal traps out. I've just done that on mine - I got all but one out with a 3/4" drive impact gun. They are very soft metal which means they will chew up if you look at them, but the other side of the coin is that you can run a small drill up the outside without damaging the crank, which is much harder. You're in for the long haul I'm afraid.

[thexkeprocess]

Update
Not only was # 3 bearing damaged but also found broken teeth off of the drive gear of the oil pump
Wondering which came first, broken gear resulting in low oil pressure leading to melted bearing
Guess doesn't matter engine is done in!
Found a temporary engine has high Kim's but runs well doesn't burn oil
Will put that in , at least will get a month or 2 of fun
Mark

[Hugo]

I'd be very surprised if the gear teeth just stripped without severe provocation. At a guess I would say the oilway to no. 3 got blocked with sludge which caused the bearing to melt, and then some of the debris got sucked into the oil pump, which would have made it cough! You wouldn't have seen a pressure drop on the gauge either.
It's academic though really, isn't it. Rotten luck.