A strange day in the workshop...

[AshM]

So a bit of a weird one today in the workshop.

Completed the fitting of a 123 system - all went exactly to plant and the instructions (green LED, slight turn to time, etc..) but no spark. Had changed leads and coil too; so just need to work through everything and try to find problem.

But don't think I have any fuel getting through which is strange. I have done nothing to the fuel system since last starting it (i am always very keen to re-start it regularly as I work through jobs so not to end up with a long list of potential problem areas) apart from changing the fuel filter (bulkhead end) for a modern one. I don't need to 'bleed' anything to get fuel through do I?

Should I expect wet plugs having been turning it over for a good length of time?

Also, in turning it over for lengthy periods the bolt that attaches the battery earth strap to the bulkhead gets too hot to touch and I am sure I saw a wisp of smoke from one of the LT earth leads that attaches to the same bolt.

All a little strange.

As always, I value the wisdom and experience of The Forum.

[mgcjag]

Hi Ash.....so two things your now not sure on fuel and spark......first check out that smoking wiring. ..disconnect the battery terminals and wires..give them a good clean and thin smear with vasoline and reconnect tight....then check with ignition on all is OK. .......pull out all the spark plugs....with ignition on you should hear fuel pump operate....check that u have fuel to all carbs.....either turn over engine and check fuel in the cylinders or look in the cars. .......next on to the ignition...rest all the plugs on the head so the electrode is touching or almost entirely earth.....turn over the engine..you should see all plugs fire...if you have an extinguisher handy as the wiring is suspect and u have fuel vapour around....do this outside if poss or with garage doors open.......did you set the 123 so that it fires on the compression stroke

[mgcjag]

Forgot to say....fuel does not need bleeding.....it works just like your WC....fuel at pressure from pump to the the float valve....and into card as fuel is used float drops opening valve to let more fuel in...so the height the float is set crucial to have the correct level in the cab jet

[AshM]

Thanks Steve - off to the workshop so will take your suggestions with me.

[AshM]

Still a very dead car despite checking everything carefully.

Is there any way of checking the new 123 System is working - I get the green LED when setting it up but no way of knowing if its a faulty unit.

Also, can I put a plug directly into the Coil exit HT Lead? To check HT output from coil?

[mgcjag]

Hi Ash....yes you can check the ht spark on the output from the coil...you dont have to put a spark plug in just hold it close to earth....the post i gave a few back re pulling the plugs should let you see the spark being distributed....just a thought....is the carbon center in the distributor cap in place ( the bit that touches on top of the rotor arm...they can fall out.....also it is quite awkward to get the 123 cap on straight is it possible you dont have it on square..

[AshM]

Good idea Steve - I have not checked the physical pin inside the new Cap - job 1 on Saturday when at the workshop.

Failing that I think I am out of ideas of anything else I can check so it's back to the old Dizzie I suppose.

It is booked in to CMC for a full end-to-end check in 10 days - don't think they would appreciate getting a non-starter delivered! Although it is being trailered down to them.

Thanks for reply.

[mgcjag]

Well in that case dont stress too much if you dont get it started, just make sure u also send the old dizzy with it...they will sort it no problem

[AshM]

Having a nightmare experiencewith CMC - they have not been able to start the car (with them two weeks now) with the new Electronic Ignition and I get no sense of a plan or urgency.

So many plans for the car being at Windsor and a bit of a UK road trip either side of that event.

Anyway - thought it was in safe hands at CMC but not a good story so far and the clock is most definitely ticking.

Any other experiences of them? I truly thought I was taking it to one of the best.

[mgcjag]

Hi Ash.....think you need to discuss with CMC....what they have tried so far and get tbem to give you a plan of action which includes timescales......they are one of the best when it comes to e type restoration and usually have a lot going on...i have no association with them.......have they even started work on it yet......

[Hugo]

Good grief - how difficult can it be for a garage to sort this out? Two weeks? What are they doing? All you need do is work through the ignition system methodically from one end to the other, then do the same with the fuel system. These are very basic engines - there's nothing complex about them.
I would start by taking the centre lead out of the distributor cap and hold it near an earth - about 1/4" away - while you crank the engine. Use any part of the engine as an earth except the carbs in case there's gasolene floating about. Start off by holding the lead 1/4" away, then increase the distance. A healthy spark will jump a good 1/2" under atmospheric pressure.
If you have a spark, re-fit the coil lead and do the same with one of the plug leads. If you have a spark, all you need to do now is make sure it is happening in the right place. Check that the relevant piston is at the top of the compression stroke - just take the plug out & put your finger over the hole while you watch the spark. If you have a healthy spark, the problem lies with the fuel system.
If you did NOT get a spark on the first test, check the low tension wiring. Make sure you have a positive feed to the coil. Make sure that you have continuity from the negative coil terminal to the distributor. If you still have the electronic distributor fitted, my knowledge runs out at this point, as I am not familiar with them. With the old points distributor, what I would do is take the top off and flick a small screwdriver across the points. If the points are closed, lift them apart, and if they are open, bridge across them with a screwdriver. You should get a bit of sparking as you do this. Better still, use a multi-meter to check that they are opening and closing.
It will take less time to do these checks than it has taken me to describe them. If you have a spark in the right place, work backwards with the fuel system. Take a pipe off the carbs, turn the ignition on & see if petrol gushes out. If it does not, work backwards to the fuel pump - check that you have a feed to the pump - give it a clout with a small hammer (not on the plastic end cap!) as they sometimes stick, & see if it starts ticking. Just work right through the system - it's simple plumbing. If you do have petrol getting to the carbs, then you will have to delve into the carbs themselves, but this is so unlikely it's not worth describing. Make sure the choke linkage is working. I would mention float height, but the odds against getting three floats sinking, or float valves blocked, at the same time are far higher than winning the lottery.
Less than an hour to check the whole lot.

[AshM]

Sorry, meant to close off this post stream a while ago.

Probably the best outcome for me - the new 123 unit was duff (so not my incompetence). Replaced and started instantly and, once timed, it ran beautifully. All the way to Windsor and back from Edinburgh.

Starting is the most impressive since fitting the new 123. It is like a switch; instant firing.

best
Ash