Poor shifting

[cdnp62000]

My 4 speed manual car has deveolped a bit of a shifting issue where it is hard to select reverse, first and second without grinding the gears.
It seems to shift better after driving for a bit.
The fluid reservoir is full.
There doesnt seem to be any information regarding linkage adjustment in the workshop manual. Any one have any ideas?
Thanks for any assistance.

[abowie]

Bleed the clutch until you have clean fluid coming out the nipple.

Change the gearbox oil using Redline MT90. The box takes 1.7l of oil; essentially you fill it until it overflows the filler hole.

There are no linkages per se; the gear lever directly actuates the selector mechanism which is inside the top of the gearbox and is to all intents and purposes non adjustable.

[chrisfell]

Crunching the gears when selecting reverse means the clutch is dragging. If all else is adjusted well, no play in the linkage from the slave cylinder, no air in the brake lines, the only other cause is a completely shot release bearing.

And despite the recent protestations of other listers, this is an engine out job on normal unmolested E-Types. There is no cheap or quick fix.

[christopher storey]

There is an elusive problem with clutch release which stems from the pushrod on the slave cylinder not being long enough . The result of this is that when the clutch pedal is released, the slave piston does not travel as far back in the cylinder as it should do . Consequently, on the next application, there is insufficient travel to fully release the clutch pressure plate. The usual telltale of this situation is where pumping the pedal two or three times in quick succession results in a clean release, only for the same situation to occur a minute or two later. In this way it mimics air in the system, but no matter how much you bleed , it does not improve. I had to lengthen the pushrod on one of my cars ( an S2) by welding a stub onto it, and this cured the problem

[chrisfell]

I had exactly these symptoms (Christopher Storey's post), and tried the same solutions (pumping the pedal, extending the pushrod). These provided only temporary relief. Eventually, as I was committed to a 2,500 mile continental trip, I had to bite the bullet and pay a HUGE SUM OF MONEY to someone else to change the clutch for me.

I then had the problem of finding the correct clutch, as my car is so much of a bitsa that the clutch is not what would have been fitted in 1967.

Unfortnuately, I do not have room in my garage to remove the engine and gearbox. There isn't enought height to lift the car over the engine, nor, as the garage drive is a very steep slope, any room to roll the car out of the way afterwards. So getting someone else to do the work is my only option.

[mgcjag]

Hi..whats your name.and what model do you have...and what manual are you using...if you look in tne Jaguar workshop manual you will find that theres adjustment details for tne clutch slave cylinder.....in adition as Christopher said above some pushrods can be short.....there are different lengths and types of cylinder some with and some without a return spring..........slave cylinders can be awkward to bleed expell all the air....the best way i find when bleeding is just before tightening the bleed nipple on the downstroke of the pedel fully push in the pushrod....you will invariably see a couple of extra air bubbles come out.. have a look at tnis link and lots of info if you search clutch adjustment
http://www.myetype.co.uk/forum/viewtopi ... ent#p43717

[cdnp62000]

Thanks for the replies.
Gives me a few things to check.
The car is Series 2 LHD OTS that has been in my family since the early 1980's.
The car has done 40,000 miles.
In the time our family has had the car it has not had any engine or clutch work done.
Might be time for a new clutch.
Roy

[abowie]

It may be. But do the easy things first.

[KingRichard]

Hi, I just refreshed the clutch fluid and adjusted the clutch. I let gravity do its work to empty the system and flushed it with methylated spirit. I then filled the reservoir with fresh fluid and used the bicycle inner tube method to bleed the system. Worked excellent.

Richard

......slave cylinders can be awkward to bleed expell all the air....the best way i find when bleeding is just before tightening the bleed nipple on the downstroke of the pedel fully push in the pushrod....you will invariably see a couple of extra air bubbles come out..

[Gfhug]

Similar problems and it looks like I'll need to fit a new slave cylinder, a couple of questions first, please:
1 How long should that push rod be? If Christopher Storey says they can be on the short side.
2 With the push rod disconnected from the clutch arm, how much should that clutch arm be able to move? Is it loose, stiff?

Thanks
Geoff

[christopher storey]

Geoff : I'm sorry , I don't know the answer to your question about length, and I think that there is no fixed answer because it seems to vary from car to car. Part of the trouble seems to be that Jaguar kept changing the cylinder viz hydrostatic/ normal ; with spring/ without ; with adjustable pushrod/fixed pushrod - and I suspect that over the years many cars have had a mix of parts fitted which has caused chaos . If you are suffering the symptoms I set out, and are quite sure that slave piston is not fully returning , and therefore by inference the rod is too short, then I suggest you measure as accurately as you can how far the piston can be pushed back from its normal resting place , and weld on an extra amount just fractionally short of the "push" distance you have measured, and seeing how it works. If it is now holding the clutch release bearing so that there is no free play, then a take off a bit with a grinder until such time as you have the requisite free play

[Moeregaard]

I'm with Chris on this one. It sounds like your clutch disc is binding on the splines, preventing complete disengagement, hence difficult shifting and difficulty engaging reverse, which is unsyncronized. This occurs most often on E-Types that are rarely driven, or have been allowed to sit for extended periods. All it takes is for a small amount of corrosion to develop between the disc's splines and those of the first-motion shaft. It is an engine-out job, but you can drop the powertrain out the bottom and slide the gearbox out from under the car.

[mgcjag]

Hi Geoff....have a look at the adjusting instructions in the Jag manual....there are different slave cylinders and pushrods...the adjustable tupe has a return spring....this is the ideal set up.......with tne spring disconected and the pushrod fully in, and the clutch fork fully pushed forward you should be able to adgust the pushrod to .75in gap, if you cant it could be the pushrod you have is too short.....mine was and i just used a piece of threaded rod to replace it....but check out the different length slaves

[chrisfell]

Not wanting to criticise the advice given so far, BUT.....

If the car has been driven by the current owner's family for 30 years, up to 40,000 miles and with the current slave cylinder push rod, it isn't too short. Extending the push rod won't cure the problem. At best it will delay the moment it needs to be fixed. It is much more likely to be a worn release bearing and / or a worn friction plate.

BTW, I've been there, and done all of that. By the time my clutch was replaced the release bearing carrier was operating the clutch, metal to metal contact causing inevitable wear.

[mgcjag]

Thete are now 2 different members asking different clutch related questions...so the more info they have the better

[Gfhug]

Thanks for the responses that help answer my questions (and apologies for a bit of a hijack, but I think we are both gaining)
I took my slave off and it looks to be the culprit, worn/pitting. It could well explain why I've suddenly had crunching into reverse.
I going to order a new one (not even worth trying a repair kit) and had been considering getting a new rod as mine is rusted/pitted, which is why I asked how long. But as the S2 is a longer cylinder (95 vs 80 mm) then maybe the replacement rod will be long enough.

Thanks again
Geoff

[Herzeg]

I'm going to apologize in advance for throwing the diced carrots in (with acknowledgement to Billy Connolly).

I have a 77,000 mile LHD S2 OTS. No problems whatsoever with clutch pedal and changes. My problem is an occasional lack of engagement in 2nd. Given the thread and mention of no adjustment of gear lever movement, I wonder if the fact it only has this issue in 2nd is significant. If I don't think it sometimes goes into 2nd but not far enough and pushing the throttle just makes it look like I want attention Decking the clutch and pulling it further back solves it and off I go. Reverse can be a toughie sometimes but with no synchromesh that's understandable.

Anyone else have this problem?

John

[chrisfell]

John,My car had a weak synchro in second before I took ownership. What was done to correct this I don't know, but for the next 50,000 miles I've not had any further problems. Could it be that 2nd gear synchro is used more than any others?

[Nickleback]

Hi John,
I had a similar issue with the car always stuggling to get in and out of 3rd gear without crunching. When my engine blew at 99,000 miles, we pulled the gearbox out & it turned out to be the syncro and selectors where shot needed a full gearbox rebuild which has now been done. What a difference
Best "live with it" until you pull the engine out, you could always get Angus to check it out for you to see if it can be tweaked to manage it better ?

[abowie]

There are I think 2 different pushrods; certainly there are more than one part numbers for them. One is 4" long; I think the other is shorter.
As long as you replace your slave cylinder with the same size and type you have now, your pushrod should be fine.
With the rod disconnected the clutch fork will have a reasonable amount of essentially free motion until the thrust bearing abuts against the clutch unit.

To be honest I do not have a good concept in my head about what the functional differences between the different size and types of slave are. I don't for example properly understand:

• what the reason behind changing from the short to long slave cylinders is
  why there are different length actuating rods
  what the actual function of the spring fitted to the clutch fork is
  whether you need a spring with a "hydrostatic" slave or not, or indeed what it really does at all
  why some slaves seem not to contain an internal spring even though the parts manuals show them in all slaves
  why some slaves have a circlip that stops the plunger coming out while others don't