Series 3, go on persuade me!

[Barry]

Hi Andrew,
I think there might have been a slight mix up between posts with jagwit! Yes, my car was bought from Eagle but restored by M&C Wilkinson. Fitted with the last factory fresh 6.0 litre engine, fuel injection, AJ6 Throttle larger body kit and special TT exhaust. Power between 375 and 400 bhp. Hope that clears it up. I am sure you must have seen it at Hampton Court. Anyway, on to your dream! The guy that owns the lavender car, will he sell it to you? I really understand why you want to buy it, re-uniting it with the XJ12. Will you keep it standard, or do you want to modify it? I have already talked about gearbox choice, but be very careful. The Getrag change is just awful and not by. I like the standard 4 speed in mine. The car does not need more gears! Just longer legs via a 2.8 XJS dif. On the move you use 3rd and top only......

[vee12eman]

I like my Getrag......

Seriously though Andrew, I can't compare a Series 3 V12 to a Six cylinder E, 'cos I haven't driven one. My car is standard apart from the Getrag and uprated cooling (aluminium radiator, modern fans and extra relays - works really well even in 40 degree C temperatures). I find the steering fine - I was worried about it during the restoration, but have not felt the urge to modify since completing the car.

As to petrol consumption, really I couldn't give a toss! It's worth every cent. Anyway, if you want to worry about it, then do so, but after all, you will still have the 3,8 car for when you feel guilty or poor or both and anyway, with either the 2.88 and four speed or five speed overdrive and 3.07, economy is going to be considerably better than the XJ12 and the trick is to do longer journeys so that the choke out portion of your journey is kept to the lowest proportion - they are thirsty and smelly on choke!

Your 3.8 is (if I recall correctly),very original, on top of which it has always been a car I have admired and thought beautifully restored. Why not have fun and go down the (sensible) modification route this time? I was taken out by Nick from CMC in a sorted V12 OTS some time back and NO-one would ever call that car slow, sloppy, overweight, or any of the other epithets all too often levelled at the Series 3.

I have a modern function, retro looking Radio/USB/Ipod player, but actually, the subtle but addictive engine noise is all the soundtrack you need. After all (as I once read on this forum) the 3.8 and 4.2 cars have a well developed mono sound, but the V12 is pure Dolby Stereo!

Go on - you know you want to!

By the way, that GORGEOUS red OTS with Hard Top must be one of the most beautiful Cars I have ever seen, I always loved the E-type OTS with a hard top, but the Series 3 looks particularly fabulous. Barry, you are a lucky guy!

Simon S-Y

[Woolfi]

"Preamble over, what I want some advice on, is how to make the car a bit more "sports car" and less cruiser. I would be very interested to find out what owners have done to their cars to sharpen them up a bit."
I have done:
- 6,0 L motor with 4 stromberg carbs and "reshaped" needles,
- vacuum advance for better mileage at part throttle,
- lighter flywheel,
- nearly empty front silencers. This keeps the original type of sound, but makes the sound a bit more "sharp" and louder. For a first sound test, you can make a hole longline with a diameter of 48 mm inside the front silencer. In a second step you can remove the glass-wool of the absoprtion part of the front silencers.
- The front trumpet leading to the air filter was changed to a pipe with 58 mm inner diameter. I think if you have 47 mm inner diameter, it would be also okay. The original trumpet has 32mm in the front.
- Thicker front sway bar,
- adjustable shocks at the front,
- adjustable shocks from GAZ rear,
- Rob Beere offers a adjustable "valve" to make the steering "stiffer" / less "light".
If you "open" the ront trumpet to the air filter and "open" the two front silencers, the motor will have a much leaner mixture and run awefully. You MUST shape the 4 carb needles a little bit thinner. Most of the owners don't do this, because they dont know how to do. I have often heared, that the motor needs some back pressure from the exhaust system, to run well. This is 100% wrong. If you reduce the back pressure , the mixture becomes leaner and becaus eof the leaner mixture, the motors runs much worse than before. I have mounted a Lambda wide-band system, to be able to controll the mixture, after I have done the changes for air filter and exhaust system. The mixture has become pretty lean. After I have reshaped the needles (lot of work) the mixture is correct at idle, part throttle and full throttle.- 2,88er rear axle,
- 5-Gear Getrag.
At cruising most in 4the and 5th gear my gas consumption is roundabout 13 - 14 L/100Km, which is roundabout 18 miles per US gallon or 21,3 mp imp gallon.
Driving this car since 2001 I am happy with all the modification I have done in the last 17 years.
Regards Wolfgang Gatza

[Barry]

Thanks Simon, I am indeed a lucky guy! There is a quality Australian magazine called Jaguar, and I have just written an article for them, about 1500 words, plus lots of pics about my car. Likely to be published in two months time. I’ll keep everyone in the loop. Woolf I, you also have a nice car. Sorry to be rude about the Getrag! Each to his own, and if it’s right for you, then great. Cheers guys, Barry

[andrewh]

Hi Andrew,
I think there might have been a slight mix up between posts with jagwit! Yes, my car was bought from Eagle but restored by M&C Wilkinson. Fitted with the last factory fresh 6.0 litre engine, fuel injection, AJ6 Throttle larger body kit and special TT exhaust. Power between 375 and 400 bhp. Hope that clears it up. I am sure you must have seen it at Hampton Court. Anyway, on to your dream! The guy that owns the lavender car, will he sell it to you? I really understand why you want to buy it, re-uniting it with the XJ12. Will you keep it standard, or do you want to modify it? I have already talked about gearbox choice, but be very careful. The Getrag change is just awful and not by. I like the standard 4 speed in mine. The car does not need more gears! Just longer legs via a 2.8 XJS dif. On the move you use 3rd and top only......

Sorry been off line for a couple of days. Wow the car is awesome. Love the look of it. Reference the Lavender car , I dont think the chap will sell it yet. He is not young, but also not seemingly in need of cash. I have learnt in life that if something is meant to be , it will be. So we will see. To answer your question reference upgrades on it, I doubt I would touch that car as its low mileage and original, although for some unfathomable reason the owner decided to replace the original and presumably ( mileage low) perfect dark blue leather with beige. I would seek to put the trim back to standard factory delivery but that would probably be it. In many way, I would be better to get myself a project from the US and build something I really fancy. I am pretty much wedded to manual though. Every car I owned, modern that is, is an auto so classics to me have to be manual. Your car has certainly whet my appetite!

[andrewh]

I like my Getrag......

Seriously though Andrew, I can't compare a Series 3 V12 to a Six cylinder E, 'cos I haven't driven one. My car is standard apart from the Getrag and uprated cooling (aluminium radiator, modern fans and extra relays - works really well even in 40 degree C temperatures). I find the steering fine - I was worried about it during the restoration, but have not felt the urge to modify since completing the car.

As to petrol consumption, really I couldn't give a toss! It's worth every cent. Anyway, if you want to worry about it, then do so, but after all, you will still have the 3,8 car for when you feel guilty or poor or both and anyway, with either the 2.88 and four speed or five speed overdrive and 3.07, economy is going to be considerably better than the XJ12 and the trick is to do longer journeys so that the choke out portion of your journey is kept to the lowest proportion - they are thirsty and smelly on choke!

Your 3.8 is (if I recall correctly),very original, on top of which it has always been a car I have admired and thought beautifully restored. Why not have fun and go down the (sensible) modification route this time? I was taken out by Nick from CMC in a sorted V12 OTS some time back and NO-one would ever call that car slow, sloppy, overweight, or any of the other epithets all too often levelled at the Series 3.

I have a modern function, retro looking Radio/USB/Ipod player, but actually, the subtle but addictive engine noise is all the soundtrack you need. After all (as I once read on this forum) the 3.8 and 4.2 cars have a well developed mono sound, but the V12 is pure Dolby Stereo!

Go on - you know you want to!

Thanks Simon......you are right......I want to and I know it! So , whilst I am keen to get my old Lavender car back, it limits my choice of upgrades as I would not want to alter it. As for fuel, of course you are right. Why would I bother. If I take it on holiday and do 600 miles, well then its just an expense. Heres the thing...whisper it, I think the V12 Series 3 is a massively undervalued alternative to the Series 1. I know, they have picked up a lot over the last few years, but they are still pretty good value next to a series One. Now , I have to finish a restoration on my family owned Land Rover Series 2, then I am free to get stuck into a V12. I just need to find a nice, rot free manual from California. Besides which , I have always wanted to rebuild a V12 engine. oooh, better get on E Bay.

By the way, that GORGEOUS red OTS with Hard Top must be one of the most beautiful Cars I have ever seen, I always loved the E-type OTS with a hard top, but the Series 3 looks particularly fabulous. Barry, you are a lucky guy!

Simon S-Y

[Barry]

Hi Andrew,
If it’s not a rude question, what’s the budget, and looking for an American car I presume lhd is not a problem. I can understand why you would not want to necessarily modify a car. Values: interesting that Series 3 cars are a little up than they were. Although it is definitely a buyers market at the moment. Bear in mind that in the late 80’s, it was the V12 everyone wanted. Having owned all three Series, i know why! So maybe a good time to buy before the market really catches on fo the next hike in values. Anyway let us know if you want us to keep an eye out, but need a brief!
Best
Barry

[andrewh]

No real idea on budget just yet. I will study the market, but its fair to say that I have the time to work on a car myself and prefer working on my own cars. I tend to bond with a car if I have restored it, where as I dont if its a car that someone else has done. Really, I would like a nice rot free manual car which I can restore Certainly a couple of years ago, the US websites were pretty full of them, when everyone was looking for Series Ones. I am not in a hurry, and as you say, it certainly a buyers market now.

[Barry]

If I see anything of interest, I’ll let you know. You know where I am if you need any help

Barry

[andrewh]

thanks Barry. I will keep you posted

[Woolfi]

"Preamble over, what I want some advice on, is how to make the car a bit more "sports car" and less cruiser. I would be very interested to find out what owners have done to their cars to sharpen them up a bit."
I have an article from a Jag-magazine how Jaguar has prepared the first EV12 for the press, shown in Italy at 1971.
With a few modifications, the car was roundabout 11 mph quicker (if the report was correct) than a original car. 11 miles more topsspeed is a lot ! If the car has to be 11 mph quicker, the motor has to produce in my calculation roundabout 39 hp more.
The modification have been "quick and dirty" and can be done with very low cost and low effort.
If somebody is interessted, he shall send his mail-adress to my. I will send a mail with some pages of the report in english language.
With a more "sporty" sound and 30 - 40 hp more, the car feels different and offers more fun.
Regards Wolfgang Gatza

[Barry]

Hi Woofi,
Yes please, can you send me a translation of that article. My email address is visible on my profile. Let me know if you have a problem. Cheers,
Best Barry

[lundabo]

Any luck on finding that article?

[malky1965]

Dear Andrew,

You'll get 11mpg day and night out of an automatic US spec v12 and you can get up to 17mpg form a UK spec manual v12. A fuel injected car can do better than that - in theory I think 22-23mpg is possible with a proper mapped ignition to boot.

If you want to discuss every possible type of modification for the s3, then drop by for a cup of tea.

The main problem with a conversion from auto to manual is sourcing the bellhousing which is much rarer then the six cylinder variant.

kind regards
Marek

Hi Marek, Would this Bellhousing be suitable for a 5 speed conversion?
http://www.5speeds.com/v12bell.html

[Ole-xke1974]

what I want some advice on, is how to make the car a bit more "sports car" and less cruiser.

You've had some very good pointers already. I just want to ad the list of my modifications, mechanical and cosmetic.
Reduced power steering pump pressure to get more feel.
Small MotoLita steering wheel.
Converted to 4sp w. O/D
Fidanza flywheel
Fully adjustable suspension w. GAZ dampers and uprated torsion bars
225/60-15 tires
Mazda MX5 seats
Covered headlights (from Marek)
Smoked indicator lenses front and rear (from Marek)
Removed all federally imposed plumming and hardware
Modified front and rear bumpers (had the train buffers)
(SU carb conversion kit on order)

Good luck with your search/hunt ...... Ole

[MarekH]

Dear Malky,

The bellhousing will bolt onto any v12 engine.

What fits onto the gearbox end appears to be listed as gearboxes commonly found in America. It doesn't list Getrag or the Jaguar box like the standard box with compact type A which Ole has fitted.

It doesn't mention how the release fork and throwout bearing will operate with it and probably expects a hydaulic bearing.

kind regards
Marek

[malky1965]

Dear Malky,

The bellhousing will bolt onto any v12 engine.

What fits onto the gearbox end appears to be listed as gearboxes commonly found in America. It doesn't list Getrag or the Jaguar box like the standard box with compact type A which Ole has fitted.

It doesn't mention how the release fork and throwout bearing will operate with it and probably expects a hydaulic bearing.

kind regards
Marek

like this I suppose,
http://www.5speeds.com/v12kit.html

[AussieEtype]

The last I heard 5 speeds were not sending any units to international customers ie no one outside the US.

[mgcjag]

Malky...this may be of intetest http://historicmotorsporttransmissions. ... l-housing/ or this http://www.jagspares.co.uk/Manners/part ... tno=C33660