E10 fuel

Talk about the E-Type Series 3
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Pgxxl
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#1 E10 fuel

Post by Pgxxl » Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:35 pm

Will our v12s be ok on this new fuel ?
1972 OTS
Opalescent silver blue
Purchased Oct 2020

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cactusman
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#2 Re: E10 fuel

Post by cactusman » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:07 pm

The simple answer is yes...so long as the car is used regularly so fuel has no chance to become stale or damp. I would strongly advise all flexible fuel hoses be replaced with E10 compatible rubber...e.g cohline 2240. . You may need to have the carbs ever so slightly richened up....if the car is to be left over winter brim the tank and add a stabiliser...this would apply equally to 6 cylinder cars....
And remember that for now at least (in most parts of the country but not all..e.g Devon and Cornwall) super unleaded will remain ethanol free. In Devon and Cornwall for example it may be E5....

E10 is not a disaster lots make out but it can cause corrosion issues with cars that see little use and it will eat old fuel pipes with the potential for leaks and fires.....
Julian the E-type man
1962 FHC
1966 MGB....fab little car too

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johnetype
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#3 Re: E10 fuel

Post by johnetype » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:29 pm

cactusman wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:07 pm
And remember that for now at least (in most parts of the country but not all..e.g Devon and Cornwall) super unleaded will remain ethanol free. In Devon and Cornwall for example it may be E5....
Super unleaded from Esso is ethanol free (except for parts of Devon and Cornwall).

I'm not aware that the other brands have made the commitment for Super unleaded to be ethanol free. Need to check their websites.
John

1969 Series 2 FHC

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cactusman
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#4 Re: E10 fuel

Post by cactusman » Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:07 pm

Wise to check but the base stock for all brands is the same. I live 3 miles from Buncefield where all the fuel distributed across bucks, herts, Essex and north London (and probably elsewhere too) comes from. Esso, texaco, asda, Sainsbury's, jet, murco....you name it...all the tankers fill from the same tank. All the drivers do is dose with the company detergent...esso, Sainsbury's...the stock fuel is the same...ask any tanker driver!
Julian the E-type man
1962 FHC
1966 MGB....fab little car too

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lowact
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#5 Re: E10 fuel

Post by lowact » Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:11 am

E10 has been mandated in Aus for well over a decade. Corrosion has proven to be not an issue and its almost impossible to buy fuel line that is not ethanol rated.

Our highest E10 octane rating is 94 (RON), less than the recommended 98 for v12s.

E10 has 3% less energy that E0 so consumption will be at least 3% higher if the engine is tuned to accommodate E10s slightly different octane rating, energy density and stoichiometric ratio. Otherwise consumption will be even higher. My real world tests, 2 years driving an Alfa between Sydney and Canberra, was that I would use 5 -10% more e10 than straight petrol (E0, 95 RON). Hardest driving caused the biggest difference. Based on this I’ve kind of adopted 8% as the cost differential required for E10 to be the more economical solution. Compared to 95 RON E0 it is, against 91 RON E0 it isn't.

Then there are the environmental considerations, the following extracted from https://www.factcheck.org/2015/11/ethan ... -or-lower/

Similarly, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office issued a report on the subject in June 2014, finding “only limited potential” for reducing greenhouse gas emissions through use of corn-based ethanol in the future:
CBO: Estimates of those emissions are uncertain, and researchers’ predictions vary considerably. However, available evidence suggests that replacing gasoline with corn ethanol has only limited potential for reducing emissions (and some studies indicate that it could increase emissions).
Regards,
ColinL
'72 OTS manual V12

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cactusman
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#6 Re: E10 fuel

Post by cactusman » Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:04 am

Interestingly here in the UK (at least) 102 RON leaded petrol is still available in air ports for older piston engine planes designed to run on 'good old leader petrol'...aero engines can't be converted without being recertified...hugely expensive....so are allowed to run leaded fuel as it's better than engines failing and planes dropping out of the sky! Costs about £6 a litre though! I know a race team who use it in race cars...get it delivered in 50 gallon drums :bigrin: As far as I know there is no law preventing its use in road cars....you just need to be rich!
Julian the E-type man
1962 FHC
1966 MGB....fab little car too

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Adamski
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#7 Re: E10 fuel

Post by Adamski » Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:12 am

The BIG issue is vapour lock with the ethanol on carbureted engines, especially after parked and heat soak.
Adam
S3 V12 E Type FHC Manual 1972-owned since 1978
1957 XK150 since 1976

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cactusman
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#8 Re: E10 fuel

Post by cactusman » Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:36 pm

Indeed....may be an issue with the V12....less of an issue with the straight six as the carbs are on the other side of the engine from the hot exhaust.
Could potentially be addressed by arranging a return from the fuel rail feeding the carbs back to the tank so fuel circulates as in an injected V12 (as was done with the XJS but obviously not a simple fix!
Julian the E-type man
1962 FHC
1966 MGB....fab little car too

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MarekH
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#9 Re: E10 fuel

Post by MarekH » Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:13 pm

It's a very easy ix - unlike the six, the v12 already has a fuel return.

The classic way to get a hot start is first to be patient to allow fuel to flow and fill up the float bowls.... then floor the accelerator to clear out the plenums of hot air and get new air flowing over the carburettor bridges to pull the fuel vapour through into the cylinders.

kind regards
Marek

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tinworm
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#10 Re: E10 fuel

Post by tinworm » Thu Aug 05, 2021 7:10 am

Source of non ethynol fully leaded fuel in the UK (amongst others) is Anglo American oil in Dorset - available in 25 L drums or 205L drums - delivered. Expensive though! They also do storage fuel which is unleaded and lasts 2-3 years available in 10 L drums. I have no connection with the company.

Barrie
1968 E-type roadster, 1964 E-type fixed head 1995 Ferrari 355 1980 Ferrari 308 1987 V8 90 Landrover 1988 Bedford rascal van 1943 Ford GPW

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militateormitigate?
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#11 Re: E10 fuel

Post by militateormitigate? » Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:23 am

Avgas 100LL, 100 octane low lead, is available at my local airfield @ £1.56 per litre, currently. I sometimes fill up a jerry can if I'm there anyway. It's dyed pale blue. You probably wouldn't be allowed to drive a car anywhere near the pumps, which will be 'airside'. More pertinently, your insurance will not cover you there.
But for me my normal solution out of convenience is Millers Vspe Power Plus additive, along with draining down over winter etc. They claim it adds 2 points octane, protects against valve wear and damage from ethanol up to E10, plus a number of other claims. I've got no connection with the company, they enjoy a good reputation, but of course I can't prove to myself that the additive meets all their claims, except that on normal tuning and 123 ignition, I get no discernible detonation, nor running on and hot starts are almost instant, even in the recent heatwave.
You can of course buy additives purely to combat ethanol. Or even kits that will remove ethanol in to water which you then decant out e.g. Ethanil, which I've tried but personally found to be too much like hard work!
The Millers additive only makes economic sense in their 500ml multi shot bottle, it works out at 5 to 6p/ltr of petrol, depending on where you get it. I've just paid £25 for a bottle which will dose 500 ltrs of petrol. That's c110 galls, enough for 2000-2500 miles (maybe a bit less for the V12's :bigrin: ).
Apparently it's ok to use the additive up to 2 years from the fill date stamped on the bottle.

Alun
S2
1969 S2 coupé, manual, Dark Blue

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MarekH
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#12 Re: E10 fuel

Post by MarekH » Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:32 am

I use LPG, yawn. It is even higher octane, available all over the place and @80p per litre, it's a win-win all round, as it contains no ethanol and is a cleaner burning fuel. If you are worried about ethanol, just use the Esso premium fuel.

kind regards
Marek

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