V12 Auto to Manual Conversion

[shovelled]

Hi Everyone, I am aware this is an old topic and I have read most of the excellent information about converting on this site but it is mostly now dated and so I was hoping to pick up the latest advice from anyone.
Most of the conversion kit suppliers mentioned here no longer supply these kits, the one supplier that I got any sensible information from was Wilkinson's and their price for the Tremec T5 kit and all the other parts needed for the conversion is £10k.
The Driven Man (American Powertrain) is a comparable price when adding in all the other parts needed.
I have also been looking for a used 4 speed Moss KFN box with Laycock de Normanville o/d but when I asked a gearbox specialist how much it would be to refurbish it he said that the parts for these are now obsolete therefore my question is are these parts really obsolete and unavailable because if that is the case then it would only leave the route of a new gearbox.
If anyone here has any helpful advice on either sourcing a new Tremec T5 kit or the 4 speed + o/d I would very much appreciate it.
Many thanks in advance
George

Hi George,
I'm currently sorting out what I need to do change an S3 auto to manual.
These are all the parts you need. Not shown is the centre console and the leather gear gaiter.
The centre consoles are out of stock everywhere (but would love to be proved wrong).
If I can't find one, I'm planning to make it and then cover it in black leather which a guy in Morton can make for you (he's on Ebay).

Lets know how you get on.

Paul

[George]

Hi Paul,
The photo of parts you have posted is very interesting and thank you for posting it.
I already have a full parts list and like you have found that BD39238 is not available. The approach I have taken is to compare the costs of using a used XJ6 g/box and L de N o/d plus refurb costs and costs of all the additional parts needed with the cost of a new Tremec T5 kit plus the parts not included in the kits and for the amount of savings by buying used (if it was possible to source the correct bellhousing C33660) as opposed to buying new with warranties is just not worth it in my opinion therefore I am going down the route of buying the kit plus the additional parts needed.
I would be interested in knowing if you bought a kit + parts or whether you bought them individually and if so at what cost for the package.
Also I would be grateful for a link to the Ebay guy for the centre console please.
Many thanks
George

[angelw]

Hello George,
Be wary of the first motion shaft being supplied with the T5 Gearbox. I'm aware of one vendor supplying a first motion shaft made by welding two sections together and examples I've seen, the work has been poorly executed.

I have a client's car currently in work to convert from Auto to Manual, where the client sourced and supplied the T5 kit. When I made him aware that the First Motion Shaft is welded, he wouldn't go ahead with the project using a welded shaft and I wouldn't have agreed to take the job on. Not only was the job of joining the shaft not well executed, but some of the teeth of this new First Motion Shaft were damaged.

The solution was simple in the end. A First Motion shaft for a Ford Mustang was sourced, with the only modification required was to machine the Spigot Journal down to 0.499". A clutch plate for the Ford 10 tooth spline and compatible with the standard E Type Clutch assembly was easily found for not much money.

Regards,

Bill

[shovelled]

Hi Paul,
The photo of parts you have posted is very interesting and thank you for posting it.
I already have a full parts list and like you have found that BD39238 is not available. The approach I have taken is to compare the costs of using a used XJ6 g/box and L de N o/d plus refurb costs and costs of all the additional parts needed with the cost of a new Tremec T5 kit plus the parts not included in the kits and for the amount of savings by buying used (if it was possible to source the correct bellhousing C33660) as opposed to buying new with warranties is just not worth it in my opinion therefore I am going down the route of buying the kit plus the additional parts needed.
I would be interested in knowing if you bought a kit + parts or whether you bought them individually and if so at what cost for the package.
Also I would be grateful for a link to the Ebay guy for the centre console please.
Many thanks
George

Hi George,

Your welcome, I want to do an article on it for the E Type Owners mag, hence the picture of all the bits.
I bought all the external parts from the gearbox supplier. The internal parts were from Martyn Robby.
The Ebay guy selling the leather covers is:-

https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/jfcustoms?mk ... edia=EMAIL

He should do a nice deal on the cover for the console and the gear stick if you ask him nicely and mention me.
I'll DM you the other info on prices. The leather covers should be here later in the week so I'll let you know what they look like.
Cheers

[George]

Hi Bill,

I think I know who the T5 supplier is that you mention because I read the info on another forum about the welded 1st motion shaft and that was from a few years ago but I didn't know they were still supplying them with the welded shaft so thank you for the tip.
Cheers
George

[cunpr]

"Hi George,
Not shown is the centre console and the leather gear gaiter.
The centre consoles are out of stock everywhere
If I can't find one, (he's on Ebay).
Paul"

Dear Paul,
I have a brand new unused console. E-mail me direct if you want it.

[shovelled]

Hey Paul

I DM’d you but now have 2 messages in my outbox that will not send. Need to try on a computer later but please bare with me. I am interested in the console. Cheers Paul

[mgcjag]

Private messages will stay in your outbox untill the recipiant opens them......Steve

[shovelled]

Hi Steve
Thanks for that, really good to know.


Cheers Paul

[George]

Hello George,
Be wary of the first motion shaft being supplied with the T5 Gearbox. I'm aware of one vendor supplying a first motion shaft made by welding two sections together and examples I've seen, the work has been poorly executed.

I have a client's car currently in work to convert from Auto to Manual, where the client sourced and supplied the T5 kit. When I made him aware that the First Motion Shaft is welded, he wouldn't go ahead with the project using a welded shaft and I wouldn't have agreed to take the job on. Not only was the job of joining the shaft not well executed, but some of the teeth of this new First Motion Shaft were damaged.

The solution was simple in the end. A First Motion shaft for a Ford Mustang was sourced, with the only modification required was to machine the Spigot Journal down to 0.499". A clutch plate for the Ford 10 tooth spline and compatible with the standard E Type Clutch assembly was easily found for not much money.

Regards,

Bill

Hi Bill,

With reference to your above post I would be grateful if you could give an idiot proof explanation of exactly what you did to the Mustang first motion shaft and why you had to source the Ford 10 tooth spline rather than use the one supplied with the kit. Was the clients car a V12 and also what exactly is the spigot journal please.

The kit you are talking about is the one that I was going to order but without a practical and cost effective solution to a known weakness I will not go ahead with the order but I do like the sound of your solution and I would like to order this kit because not withstanding the weak input shaft it looks a very good and cost effective piece of kit would you agree?

Many thanks

George

[angelw]

George Wrote:

With reference to your above post I would be grateful if you could give an idiot proof explanation of exactly what you did to the Mustang first motion shaft and why you had to source the Ford 10 tooth spline rather than use the one supplied with the kit. Was the clients car a V12 and also what exactly is the spigot journal please.

Hello George,
I'll answer more fully tomorrow, including pictures. However, the reason for not using the First Motion Shaft supplied, it was constructed from two parts welded together and not very well at that.

With out doing a destructive test, my estimate on the depth of penetration was circa 3 to 4 mm, based on the width of the weld at the surface. Effectively, such a set up is tantamount to the engine torque being transferred to the gearbox via a 3 to 4 mm wall thickness piece of tube. At the diameter of the OD of the shaft, that would be strong enough in normal circumstances.

The OD of the shaft welded area has been machined and this would be for the same reason one would polish engine connecting rods, that being to eliminate rough surface finish that could give rise to destructive cracking. What is not realized by some practitioners of the welded shaft, is that the toe of the weld (the root of the weld penetration) also has an irregular profile similar to that which is sought to be removed from the surface of the weld by machining, can also provide stress point rises. This, in combination with the relatively shallow depth of weld penetration, by my calculations, results in a shaft circa 1/3 the strength of the one piece component.


Regards,

Bill

[George]

Hi Bill,
Are you still working on the detailed idiot proof description of how to use a Mustang 1st motion shaft & the ford clutch assembly in the aforementioned conversion kit?

I don't want to appear too pushy but I am keen to see how you did it so hopefully I can follow your lead.

Cheers

George

[alejandrovilacha]

I'm very interested too. is it possible two examples? One of the cheapest option to manual conversio and other one of performante version